Realm Reborn = downgrade?

[Nero]

Is this another Grass-thread about seen things in a "pre-alpha-stage-video"?

[Nemy]

Is this another Grass-thread about seen things in a "pre-alpha-stage-video"?

No, its about a fundamental aspect of the game this time, called : character animation.

[Nero]

No, its about a fundamental aspect of the game this time, called : character animation.

Which has nothing to do with a demonstration-video of gameplay. I see a lot of statements from you, but you dont even get your own statements.

Read this again:

Graphics = junk like resolution, polycount, 2D or 3D, color count, and what effects can be implemented.
Art style/direction = the actual visuals, if they're cartoony or realistic, what setting they represent, basicly how everything looks.
Animation = how characters and environments move, and while they assist art direction and style, they are a completley different animal from graphics. 3D animation is sort of like a really advanced form of puppeteering, like claymation.

While all these things are connected, they are the furthest thing from equal, so be careful how you talk about them.

.. and you will maybe understand that whining about character-animation in a "pre-alpha-stage-video", is equal to whining about the color of an uncolored car. Funny thing is, you allready confirmed that post, but you didnt understand it?

The fact still stands, that you are complaining about the Character-Animation of a pre-alpha vid. That itself makes everything you say pretty much meaningless, since you obviously dont understand what "pre-alpha" even means. You are asking people "what's your point?", so let me ask you "What is your point?". At Gamescom it has being said the footage runs at PS3 specs, which does not imply that the graphics/animations are allready being made. You wont even see fine-tuning until the very last beta, which includes character-animation.

[Nemy]

everything you say pretty much meaningless, since you obviously dont understand what "pre-alpha" even means.

A pre-alpha period can range from the moment a character designer picks up a pencil to draw the first line, to literally minutes before testing the product.

So "understanding what pre-alpha even means" is absolutely meaningless if you don't consider the actual time left before the testing.

A semi-public alpha test is not a period of core development. Its a period of correcting unintended mistakes, and fine tuning. And since i do understand the post outlining the differences between different fields of game developing, i know the difference between character animation and adding a +8 AA a week after open beta.

If you do understand what animation is, you could even go as far as dismissing my concern as meaningless, since we're so close to alpha that nothing this big can change at this point.

But the key word here is "concern". I'm not making an argument, nor do i "whine". I'm making our legitimate concern public, without claiming to know the future state of the animation in ARR.

You also have to be limited not to understand that this, is the time to do it, not later.

whining about character-animation in a "pre-alpha-stage-video", is equal to whining about the color of an uncolored car.

The above statement could be true if we were nowhere near alpha testing.

Also, the animation in a video game is not the equivalent of color on a car. Its the wheels. And nobody publicly showcases a car without wheels.

...unless its really a submarine.

[Nero]

A pre-alpha period can range from the moment a character designer picks up a pencil to draw the first line, to literally minutes before testing the product.

So "understanding what pre-alpha even means" is absolutely meaningless if you don't consider the actual time left before the testing.

That does not make sense at all. You are using the words "pre alpha video" to your own beliefs, which leads you to your whole weird assumptions. Pre Alpha means, that the current Game and certain aspects of the Game/Content have not reached the Alpha-Stage, which is were we can register for on the Lodestone.

Using a pencil is not Pre-Alpha State, that is the Design-State. You need to Stop mixing things.

A semi-public alpha test is not a period of core development. Its a period of correcting unintended mistakes, and fine tuning.

Simple said: Incorrect. Fine tuning is something you wont see in an Alpha, period.

And since i do understand the post outlining the differences between different fields of game developing, i know the difference between character animation and adding a +8 AA a week after open beta.

You do? Certificates.

AA has nothing do to with Character-Animation. AA is to improve the Graphic... <_< Didn't you just say you know the difference? If you think fine-tuning is all about graphical aspects, then you are wrong.

If you do understand what animation is, you could even go as far as dismissing my concern as meaningless, since we're so close to alpha that nothing this big can change at this point.

Are you working for SE that you actually know what they implemented yet, did not implement, adjusted, did not adjust, showed, did not show? Game-Animation is of course something "big", if you want to call it that but it is still common for Demo-Vid esp. in Alpha-States to not show every single Animation, since certain of them maybe does not look the way the Developer wants it to be.

But the key word here is "concern". I'm not making an argument, nor do i "whine". I'm making my legitimate concern public, with claiming to know the future state of the animation in ARR.

Fixed. You should go back a few pages and recheck what you've said.

You also have to be limited not to understand that this, is the time to do it, not later.

That is what Alpha's and Beta's are for. Simple enough, or do you think the Alpha-Forum/Beta-Forum are there to have Small-talk about the weather?

The above statement could be true if we were nowhere near alpha testing.

You must really work for SE, since i cant find a given Date of Alpha-testing.

Also, the animation in a video game is not the equivalent of color on a car. Its the wheels. And nobody publicly showcases a car without wheels.

...unless its really a submarine.

But without Color?.. Yeah right. lol If you want to turn words to your own beliefs, go for it. Wont change the fact, that you will be proven wrong, as soon as the Release is about to happen.

[Nemy]

Pre Alpha means, that the current Game.... has not reached the Alpha-Stage

Exactly.

Using a pencil is not Pre-Alpha State

Using a pencil is something that takes place -by your own definition- before the Alpha. Therefore.... (i'll let you figure it out by yourself.)

Pre-Alpha is not a "stage". It is simply a term to define the time BEFORE the game is ready for an Alpha test, and as i already explained, that time could be either years or minutes before the actual Alpha test.

Get -your own- definitions straight.

Fine tuning is something you wont see in an Alpha, period.

Well, wrong. If you agree that an Alpha is not a stage of core development, then IDEALLY, the remaining changes can be defined as "fine tuning". That being said, i'm not denying the fact that changes of core elements can even occur in Beta, depending on the situation.

AA has nothing do to with Character-Animation. AA is to improve the Graphic... <_< Didn't you just say you know the difference?

This is where i'm starting to question your intellectual capacity. Let's see what you're replying to :

-"i know the difference between character animation and adding a +8 AA a week after open beta."

And now let me simplify it :

Its like me saying : "I know the difference between apples and oranges"

And you replying : "Apples have nothing to do with oranges, apples are red and... i thought you knew the difference between apples and oranges"

I mean, reading comprehension man... focus.

If you think fine-tuning is all about graphical aspects, then you are wrong.

I don't. I sure don't think though that changing the core moving animation of characters can be considered "fine tuning". What is your point?

Are you working for SE that you actually know what they implemented yet, did not implement, adjusted, did not adjust, showed, did not show?

Let's see what you're replying to again :

-"If you do understand what animation is, you could even go as far as dismissing my concern as meaningless, since we're so close to alpha that nothing this big can change at this point."

Protip : Any sentence that starts with "If you... you could even go as far as..." proposes a hypothetical situation. No i don't know what SE will do with the animation, nor did i ever claimed to know.

Game-Animation is of course something "big", if you want to call it that but it is still common for Demo-Vid esp. in Alpha-States to not show every single Animation, since certain of them maybe does not look the way the Developer wants it to be.

You could, -and i hope- you're right. That doesn't mean we shouldn't make our concerns public early on though, just in case the animation is heading the "subjectively wrong" way. We have every right under freedom of speech and just plain logic, to address the issue and ask for clarifications at this time. That's all there is to it.

-implying- It's your own concern and you claim to know the future state of animation in ARR

Oh-really.jpg

Look around you. I'm obviously not the only one concerned about this issue. So its *our* not *my* concern.

You should go back a few pages and recheck what you've said.

Go back yourself and find me one single quote where i claim to KNOW the future state of the animation in ARR.

I wish you good luck on your journey, and may gods have mercy on your soul.

do you think the Alpha-Forum/Beta-Forum are there to have Small-talk about the weather?

Compared to character animation, the rest of the issues usually addressed during Alpha/Beta, can be considered small talk about the weather. A bugged quest compared to animation is really, small talk. Again, i'm not absolute here, big stuff can change. Though the fact remains : The sooner you address some issues, the better.

You must really work for SE, since i cant find a given Date of Alpha-testing.

Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

Frequently Asked Questions - When will the alpha test begin?

Square Enix - We are currently aiming to start the alpha test sometime this fall.

I said November since its the last month of ... the fall.

you will be proven wrong, as soon as the Release is about to happen.

To be "proven wrong" i need to have a position, a thesis, or an argument. Since i, (and also we) only have a concern and i ask for clarification and awareness, i can't be "proven wrong" per se.

I sure hope that you're right though, and the amazing work of the animators doesn't get thrown away.

[Nero]

lol.. its funny how you are trying to twist everything, just to match it to your statements.

Esp. the last one is funny..

To be "proven wrong" i need to have a position, a thesis, or an argument.

If you have a concern, you have a position.

Square Enix - We are currently aiming to start the alpha test sometime this fall.

I said November since its the last month of ... the fall.

Ok let me pull a "Nemy" here:

aim (m)v. aimed, aim·ing, aims

2. To direct toward or intend for a particular goal or group.

So when was the Start of Alpha again? Aiming for it does not mean it will happen. And Yoshi said himself; We wont start until it feels right to start.

I dont even need to into the rest of your Post, that this 2 are enough to show that your logic fails.