Class System Blues

[Duelle]

Please go play every other MMO then. This is FF where everyone can be any class w/o having to reroll 20 times

It's also the game where people gave you funny looks or called you dumb for wanting to focus on one or a handful of jobs instead of leveling and gearing every available option.

Multi-classing and the job system have always been a double-edged sword. All we can hope for is that job performance is balanced so that one does not easily out-perform the other. That way the guy with all jobs at level cap isn't massively superior to the guy that has one tank job and one DPS job leveled and geared.

[Raagnar]

It's also the game where people gave you funny looks or called you dumb for wanting to focus on one or a handful of jobs instead of leveling and gearing every available option.

Multi-classing and the job system have always been a double-edged sword. All we can hope for is that job performance is balanced so that one does not easily out-perform the other. That way the guy with all jobs at level cap isn't massively superior to the guy that has one tank job and one DPS job leveled and geared.

Personally I have never been treated this way and have never treated another this way. If you can't do the job I invited you to do then I'll give you funny looks, but I dont care how many jobs you have lvled. Just do the one asked of you.

If you feel ppl do this to you then thats your issue, unless they literally said something about you not lvling everything.

Also, ppl keep saying lvling all jobs make you less unique.. Most ppl I play with have all 50s, we are still individuals with personalities, if the players you are with arent unique to you then maybe you should get to know them better huh?

[flaco]

anyway, are you posting on an alt? you have one battle class at level 18. how could you possibly have been negatively affected by this in any way?

No, I only play one character. I just started playing (look at my Join Date.)

Also, ppl keep saying lvling all jobs make you less unique.. Most ppl I play with have all 50s, we are still individuals with personalities, if the players you are with arent unique to you then maybe you should get to know them better huh?

I don't mean unique as in unique personality, I simply mean that everyone is the same ability-wise, which can be good, but is also boring. Just imagine if in Final Fantasy X, every character had the same abilites, what would be the purpose of adding them to your party? You already have all the spells, skills, etc. that you need. . . That's all I meant.

And it's just an opinion, so I don't know why some of the posts in this thread are so aggressive. (Not your's Raagnar.)

[Skies]

I don't mean unique as in unique personality, I simply mean that everyone is the same ability-wise, which can be good, but is also boring. Just imagine if in Final Fantasy X, every character had the same abilites, what would be the purpose of adding them to your party? You already have all the spells, skills, etc. that you need. . . That's all I meant.

Oh god.
Oh god.
I mean I can get your point (I disagree with this thread, btw, but I understand what you mean), but could you have not chosen a WORSE comparison?
Really?
You get to pick the one FF game where everyone can learn every single ability at the same time since they all share the same Sphere Grid and aside from where they start (and they start very close together in the International version) to mention 'characters being unique'?
I mean... Each character was more unique in FFV than they were in FFX, specially at higher levels.

[darkm0d]

Also, ppl keep saying lvling all jobs make you less unique.. Most ppl I play with have all 50s, we are still individuals with personalities, if the players you are with arent unique to you then maybe you should get to know them better huh?

I may not speak for everyone when I clarify this for you, but I can personally say that's not the way we're talking about lack of uniqueness. As it stands now, any given class or job does not have it's OWN uniqueness. Yes, they have started to address this when the Job's came out, but it still bugs me that I have aero as a whm, but no banish.

The concept that you can "fluff" your skills by pulling a few skills from your primary "classes" is silly. Jobs are lacking massive amounts of skills and spells imo. Yes, I'm about to compare FFXIV to XI:


FFXI White Mage:
52 WHM Only Spells.
102 Total Spells.
10 Active Abilities.


FFXIV White Mage:

3 WHM Only Spells.
2 White Mage Abilities.
10 Conjuror Spells.
4 Conjuror Abilities


Yes, a lot of those spells in XI were upgraded versions of AoE / Bar / pro/shell. That's not the point. The point is that feeling of being the one and only, knowing your class brings purpose to the goal of a team. This has nothing to do with someone with every class at 50. It has everything to do with each one of those 50's standing out.

[AceofRains]

I may not speak for everyone when I clarify this for you, but I can personally say that's not the way we're talking about lack of uniqueness. As it stands now, any given class or job does not have it's OWN uniqueness. Yes, they have started to address this when the Job's came out, but it still bugs me that I have aero as a whm, but no banish.

The concept that you can "fluff" your skills by pulling a few skills from your primary "classes" is silly. Jobs are lacking massive amounts of skills and spells imo. Yes, I'm about to compare FFXIV to XI:


FFXI White Mage:
52 WHM Only Spells.
102 Total Spells.
10 Active Abilities.


FFXIV White Mage:

3 WHM Only Spells.
2 White Mage Abilities.
10 Conjuror Spells.
4 Conjuror Abilities


Yes, a lot of those spells in XI were upgraded versions of AoE / Bar / pro/shell. That's not the point. The point is that feeling of being the one and only, knowing your class brings purpose to the goal of a team. This has nothing to do with someone with every class at 50. It has everything to do with each one of those 50's standing out.

Did you even play any earlier FF games? Aero is a common white mage magic. I don't know about you but when I look at my Action bar when playing white mage, everthing about it screams WHM

Look under the "specs"
Aero was originally a white magic. Maybe not stone but it fits the "natural" theme of Conjury.


Oh and please tell me more about how each job doesn't have uniqueness. Maybe not classes AS MUCH but each class has its own methods of doing the same thing and that thing is SOLOING.

[Lux_Rayna]

I may not speak for everyone when I clarify this for you, but I can personally say that's not the way we're talking about lack of uniqueness. As it stands now, any given class or job does not have it's OWN uniqueness. Yes, they have started to address this when the Job's came out, but it still bugs me that I have aero as a whm, but no banish.

The concept that you can "fluff" your skills by pulling a few skills from your primary "classes" is silly. Jobs are lacking massive amounts of skills and spells imo. Yes, I'm about to compare FFXIV to XI:

This would kinda be the problem. Just stop doing that. This is not XI. For the love of god we understand as FF fans that every successive game is a lot different than the last. Why should XI and XIV be an exception? I didnt play FF8 and bitch and moan about how there's no omnislash, no knights of the round, and that shit was generally different. The same with XI, with X, with all of them really. Why oh why MUST you compare them? This is assuming, of course, that you are an FF fan. If you're not I totally understand why you're doing what you're doing.


I can count the number of times my WHM had Banish in Final Fantasy....on one hand. Probably less than that. I can't speak for the early early titles since i didnt play them, but I dont remember Banish in 7, 8, 9, 10, X-2, or XIII. Jus sayin. Not so sure about XIII as I never finished it.

So why should you have Banish now? Im just curious. XIV WHMs =/= XI WHMs...its a totally different story, in a totally different place, with totally different lore. Maybe you just learn Banish later, maybe not at all. Maybe its a beastmen Shaman thing, or maybe Banish belongs to Red Mages (if we get them). I mean seriously, this is not FFXI.

[darkm0d]

So why should you have Banish now? Im just curious. XIV WHMs =/= XI WHMs...its a totally different story, in a totally different place, with totally different lore. Maybe you just learn Banish later, maybe not at all. Maybe its a beastmen Shaman thing, or maybe Banish belongs to Red Mages (if we get them). I mean seriously, this is not FFXI.

I consider it unfortunate that there is little room to discuss things like this when people take such an offended stance at someone bringing up points from a game that is directly related to this one. Yes, you can bring up plenty of points about WHM's from other titles, but for the purpose of this discussion, XI's is the most practical.

But, as I said, there is no discussion to be had. This isn't about turning XIV into XI, it's about not ignoring what made that game as fun as it was, which is, in large what caused such a problem with XIV's release (at least for those who are major fan's and could ignore the interface / input / glitch issues).

[Renen]

This would kinda be the problem. Just stop doing that. This is not XI. For the love of god we understand as FF fans that every successive game is a lot different than the last. Why should XI and XIV be an exception? I didnt play FF8 and bitch and moan about how there's no omnislash, no knights of the round, and that shit was generally different. The same with XI, with X, with all of them really. Why oh why MUST you compare them? This is assuming, of course, that you are an FF fan. If you're not I totally understand why you're doing what you're doing.


I can count the number of times my WHM had Banish in Final Fantasy....on one hand. Probably less than that. I can't speak for the early early titles since i didnt play them, but I dont remember Banish in 7, 8, 9, 10, X-2, or XIII. Jus sayin. Not so sure about XIII as I never finished it.

So why should you have Banish now? Im just curious. XIV WHMs =/= XI WHMs...its a totally different story, in a totally different place, with totally different lore. Maybe you just learn Banish later, maybe not at all. Maybe its a beastmen Shaman thing, or maybe Banish belongs to Red Mages (if we get them). I mean seriously, this is not FFXI.

I think you got his post wrong. He wasnt REALLY comparing the game to 11, he was saying that the amount of skills that are actually unique is too damn low.

Meaning that in 11, a WHM had many skills that no one else had, while here, the only things u get as a WHM (and use often) can be counted on one hand.

You know how ppl run Ifrit with 2 whm? I had run ifrit with no WHM, and just had 2 THM spam cure. We actually won. Granted, because the THM were good, and knew how to do it, but still...
Not counting the Class skills, there is only 2 WHM (out of 5) skills that I use often: Regen and Presence of Mind.
Kinda makes WHM not worth it, if I only get 2 useful skills off it

@OP topic, I like having 1 char that can do everything. When I started playing other MMOs after i stopped with FF11 (being my 1st one) the 1st thing I had to get over, is why on earth they ask us to have different chars for different jobs.
Its like having a separate email for every person you want to email.

[Lux_Rayna]

I think you got his post wrong. He wasnt REALLY comparing the game to 11, he was saying that the amount of skills that are actually unique is too damn low.

Meaning that in 11, a WHM had many skills that no one else had, while here, the only things u get as a WHM (and use often) can be counted on one hand.

You know how ppl run Ifrit with 2 whm? I had run ifrit with no WHM, and just had 2 THM spam cure. We actually won. Granted, because the THM were good, and knew how to do it, but still...
Not counting the Class skills, there is only 2 WHM (out of 5) skills that I use often: Regen and Presence of Mind.

Kinda makes WHM not worth it, if I only get 2 useful skills off it

@OP topic, I like having 1 char that can do everything. When I started playing other MMOs after i stopped with FF11 (being my 1st one) the 1st thing I had to get over, is why on earth they ask us to have different chars for different jobs.
Its like having a separate email for every person you want to email.

This is why I say its silly to compare at all. White Mage was a standalone job in XI, while its a branch-off from Conjurer in XIV. So yes, duh WHM wont have as many skills in this game because MOST of them (currently) come from the conjurer class. What was WHM in XI is Conj+WHM in XIV. And though he said I was offended I really wasn't, just being blunt about the subject. Its fruitless and silly to compare the two games ever. As I said, Final Fantasy titles have always taken very different approaches from each other. WHM in XIV does not have the same "meaning". If you must compare WHM from XIV to anything else, you'd have to include cnj as part of it otherwise its not even close to a fair comparison.

In terms of "unique" skills, I would say that its less about that and more about the mechanics. Anyone with a brain knows playing thm is a lot different than playing blm, that playing cnj is a lot different than playing whm, and that playing arc is way different than playing bard. It may only be a few additional skills, but those few skills essentially change the mechanics entirely. That is what the armory/job system is about. But if we had stopped using XI was a base of comparison, we would all see that. Case in point you used two THMs to replace a cnj/whm. But I guarantee you they had to play entirely different than a cnj because their access to certain resources are different.

Its not the skills thats the problem, its the way ppl play. Is it SE's fault that everyone played cnj like a WHM? No! Is it SE's fault that thms insisted on playing like BLM's? No! But why did they do this? Because of XI. Yet once you really look at it, mechanically THM is nothing like BLM, Cnj is nothing like WHM, so there was always uniqueness staring us in the face but we refused to see it.