Stop the Grind-to-the-Endgame madness!

[Rutelor]

even if it's not what they consider the best part of the game there will always be people who rush to cap. some people love to compete so they are going to be either the first person to do it or will strive to be the one that done something the best. i love to compete and want to put my very best up against someone else at their very best and see how we compare. in a mmo you at your best and me at my best are when we are capped.

Of course, Darkstar, nobody is about to take the competitiveness out of the game. Neither is anybody saying you should not, as an individual, beat us all to the endgame, if you so please. Those of us who agree in this thread are against the design trend that wants to make the path from beginning to endgame, short, quick, and perfunctory. That's a different thing.

[darkstarpoet1]

Of course, Darkstar, nobody is about to take the competitiveness out of the game. Neither is anybody saying you should not, as an individual, beat us all to the endgame, if you so please. Those of us who agree in this thread are against the design trend that wants to make the path from beginning to endgame, short, quick, and perfunctory. That's a different thing.

now that i completely agree with. i think leveling is much too fast and will hurt the game in the long run. i believe leveling from 1-cap should have an enjoyable journey there.

i took it as more of a slap against people that played the game hard to be the first to do something in your op. i apologize for mistaking the intention because i agree with the speed being too fast part.

@viritess i took his statement as saying he had it too fast on purpose, but didn't realize he has set it so fast that the majority of the people went away from feeling like the normal mmo players felt. i don't think he intended to get such a high percentage to believe it's just right because the norm for a mmo is the opposite. i don't even know if he realizes just how fast leveling in this game is atm because he added too many ways to increase sp and it's already been seen how well his Q&A team does at finding issues and bringing it to their attention..

[Viritess]

@viritess i took his statement as saying he had it too fast on purpose, but didn't realize he has set it so fast that the majority of the people went away from feeling like the normal mmo players felt. i don't think he intended to get such a high percentage to believe it's just right because the norm for a mmo is the opposite. i don't even know if he realizes just how fast leveling in this game is atm because he added too many ways to increase sp and it's already been seen how well his Q&A team does at finding issues and bringing it to their attention..

I suppose its open do debate exactly what hes thinking when he responded in that Dev Letter. But i think you may be readying too deeply into it. His wording, barring changes in translation, shows no real surprise to me. Just a comparison between most MMOs and this one, which he has set at a particular pace.

As far as SE knowing exactly how fast leveling takes I would wager they have more relevant numbers at their disposal about the entirety of the playerbase then we do in our particular circles.

QA questionable or not, past experience tells me the playerbase through sheer numbers will often find issues well before the developers themselves. So i would fail to see how the correlates to leveling speed, since the speed itself is "intentionally" set.

Though as i said in my reply, I shy away from delaring majority/minority besides the little evidence we've been provided. In all the most solid evidence we have been given is the players poll. I can't claim myself that a majority of players don't feel this is like an MMO, as you claim. I know it feels like an MMO to me, allbeit top heavy in levels in my smallish circle.

In Yoshi-p's Dev letter he said he was satisfied with the results. That does not mean he is satisfied with the current leveling speed being too fast, too slow or where it is now. I read that as being satisfied with the ruselts compared to where he has set the current leveling speed.

It will now be up to him/his group/and SE in general to decide at what speed they wish 2.0 to flow to cap. The real question i think we should focus on is not too fast or too slow. Its will there be content to take a class from 1-50 and be fun, and as un repetitive as possible? Will that content be able to survive a single person 7+ times from 1-50? is it Fun/interesting? Will it be the 4th 5th time doing it?

If a person who has all current combat classes maxed, no matter how you got there, sees an 8th class/job in 2.0. The once through new content is bount to be something interesting due to how new it is. But as current players, we may only have to roll through that content once. And not again until another class is released.

Its the new players. The people we're looking forward to joining us, and helping keep the game we injoy healthy, Vibrant, funded and ever growing we should be most concerned about as far as level speed goes. We know the tricks already. We're bound to be faster even if doing the same thing new players are.

And lastly i suppose i just don't always see level cap as the end of the journey. That greatly depends on SE and how they decide to proceed with story and "progression" at cap. Infact i belive the most challengeing journey may be the one you can't out level.

Since i'm a bit tired i may be rambling at this point. so i'll stop here and look forward to the discussion ^^

[darkstarpoet1]

In Yoshi-p's Dev letter he said he was satisfied with the results. That does not mean he is satisfied with the current leveling speed being too fast, too slow or where it is now. I read that as being satisfied with the ruselts compared to where he has set the current leveling speed.

It will now be up to him/his group/and SE in general to decide at what speed they wish 2.0 to flow to cap. The real question i think we should focus on is not too fast or too slow. Its will there be content to take a class from 1-50 and be fun, and as un repetitive as possible? Will that content be able to survive a single person 7+ times from 1-50? is it Fun/interesting? Will it be the 4th 5th time doing it?

don't get me wrong i am not trying to flame. i just looked at it as he was satisfied that so many people were so far outside of the norm 50-60% normally think it's too slow and here 50% think it is about right because he has it set intentionally high in this version to keep people within the same range with each other. the fact that he states himself that he has the speed intentionally high right now leads me to believe that it is only a temporary measure.

[Rutelor]

now that i completely agree with. i think leveling is much too fast and will hurt the game in the long run. i believe leveling from 1-cap should have an enjoyable journey there.

i took it as more of a slap against people that played the game hard to be the first to do something in your op. i apologize for mistaking the intention because i agree with the speed being too fast part.

@viritess i took his statement as saying he had it too fast on purpose, but didn't realize he has set it so fast that the majority of the people went away from feeling like the normal mmo players felt. i don't think he intended to get such a high percentage to believe it's just right because the norm for a mmo is the opposite. i don't even know if he realizes just how fast leveling in this game is atm because he added too many ways to increase sp and it's already been seen how well his Q&A team does at finding issues and bringing it to their attention..

Yes, on retrospect, I should've done better with the title... it confused many, not just you.