Stop the Grind-to-the-Endgame madness!

[Onisake]

There was a massive incentive to solo even in the early stages of the game. Just because the exp wasn't the best it was one of the best ways to make cash while leveling a job.

Yes most jobs outside of Beastmaster or Blackmage were terrible for solo but it was part of making each class unique that some were better at some tasks than others, not this white-wash everyone can do everything we had in the beginings of XIV. Soloing was included in one of those tasks you could be awesome at or not.

You had choices for Solo exp and because you thought Party exp was better you chose to not do them, especially in the mid-years of the game it was foolish to sit around town with your flag up. You either made your own party of seeked while completing other tasks such as crafting, gathering, gardening, NM hunting, Farming, you had a near limitless supply of things you could do while waiting for a party if you didn't want to make one yourself.

Again the rewards for being in a party had to far outweigh solo exploits otherwise people would just solo because they could. Look at XIV people avoid others like a plague unless they need to because they don't need to interact with others outside of instances.

I agree with this. there should be a massive incentive to party. I have a group of friends I play with. and that is nice. but really we need more small-group content and i would not object into being forced to party after 15 or 20. the first 10s of levels should be sufficient to get someone comfortable with the interface and commands.

after that we should be looking at party play. fighting should be balanced at 4 people, so small groups can still XP and get things done effectively. larger groups should also receive incentive.

[darkstarpoet1]

as long as there are levels there will always be a grid to end game. if you get rid of levels there will always be the grind to be the first or the best to do something. there's many people that play mmo's for the competition. that's why you have people asking for open world because they like the claiming wars. i'm one of them.

no matter what you do you will always have people that strive to be the first or best regardless of what it is.

[Firon]

Ho dare ppl get to lvl cap so they can enjoy what they think the best part of mmorpg's are!!!

[Rutelor]

Ho dare ppl get to lvl cap so they can enjoy what they think the best part of mmorpg's are!!!

I don't think you should generalize. Even though I understand it, because of the market trend.

However, the only good part, and the only fully enjoyable one, of an MMO does not have or need to be the endgame. That's the whole point of all this writing.

As things stand right now, with this trend, your statement, removing the sarcasm, does make perfect sense. Oh, ok... leave the sarcasm in, if you want. :-)

[Firon]

I don't think you should generalize. Even though I understand it, because of the market trend.

However, the only good part, and the only fully enjoyable one, of an MMO does not have or need to be the endgame. That's the whole point of all this writing.

As things stand right now, with this trend, your statement, removing the sarcasm, does make perfect sense. Oh, ok... leave the sarcasm in, if you want. :-)

So ppl are not allowed to go what they think is the best part of the game? If you wanna take your time and lvl slow do so. If other ppl wanna rush to the cap let them do so. All i see is here ppl that wants everyone to lvl slow with them.

[darkstarpoet1]

So ppl are not allowed to go what they think is the best part of the game. If you wanna take your time and lvl slow do so. If other ppl wanna rush to the cap let them do so. All i see is here ppl that wants everyone to lvl slow with them.

even if it's not what they consider the best part of the game there will always be people who rush to cap. some people love to compete so they are going to be either the first person to do it or will strive to be the one that done something the best. i love to compete and want to put my very best up against someone else at their very best and see how we compare. in a mmo you at your best and me at my best are when we are capped.

[Rutelor]

even if it's not what they consider the best part of the game there will always be people who rush to cap. some people love to compete so they are going to be either the first person to do it or will strive to be the one that done something the best. i love to compete and want to put my very best up against someone else at their very best and see how we compare. in a mmo you at your best and me at my best are when we are capped.

Of course, Darkstar, nobody is about to take the competitiveness out of the game. Neither is anybody saying you should not, as an individual, beat us all to the endgame, if you so please. Those of us who agree in this thread are against the design trend that wants to make the path from beginning to endgame, short, quick, and perfunctory. That's a different thing.

[Rutelor]

So ppl are not allowed to go what they think is the best part of the game? If you wanna take your time and lvl slow do so. If other ppl wanna rush to the cap let them do so. All i see is here ppl that wants everyone to lvl slow with them.

Then we really write very poorly, or you grossly misunderstood us, Firon. Pity!

[Viritess]

I'd like to bring up something i find interesting. If we look at the last players poll, a large amount of respondants replied that they we're atleast pleased with the current leveling speed which is slightly boosted.

Yoshi-P's comments on that we're quite interesting to me:

50% of you thought the pace of leveling was just about right, while 20% felt it was too fast. And then there was the 10% who had more to say on the matter.
For most MMOs, you might expect around 60-70% of players to respond with “too slow”, but as the current leveling speed for FFXIV is intentionally set at a higher pace, I’m fairly satisfied with these results.

Question 4 was for those of you who wished to further express your opinion. (And yes, I did read all of them even if we can’t print them all here!)
The most common response was that the lower levels were too slow, while the higher levels went by too fast. We have no plans to adjust the leveling speed for the current game, but we’ll certainly take these comments into consideration when tweaking the pace for version 2.0.

Of course any pool can have many unknowns that will effect an persons vote. Knowlage of PL (i thought it was a banable expoit when i started, because i had never seen any other game allow such a thing, and i ran like hell ^^) Party availability etc.

What i find interesting is Yoshi-P's expectation of "Usual" being much higher on too slow. And where the respondants actually placed. Now depending on SE's goals for leveling speed they may or may not lower the leveling speed. But i would caution any ority (majority or minority) on avoiding compromise.

I have no experience in FF11. But i've played other slow grind, enforced X time to skill up. Seperate skill % gains, quick to max style exp systems. But i think the most reasonable stance for myself is that we are atleast for the current player base around the sweetspot, plus or minus.

Myself i have no desire to see level cap become a gated community. And i appritate how SE designed Job quests to bring party play in for additions to your class instead of roadblocks.

I can understand the desire for a more enjoyable journey before "end game" but enjoyable does not need to = slow either.
Some games try to extend that "joy" by making for example 5 slots of gear and giving 1 piece per those five levels. Giving the slow leveling a sense of improvement by gradually increasing a characters power. But when you then hit the 6th level, you start replaceing what was, a set. And this continues sometimes causing some people to just want to get to the end so they can have their gear and keep it.

My main point is everyone is going to have a differing opinion on the speed to get to cap. And everyone is going to have a different opinion on what is fun on the journey there.

And also whatever speed you personally belive is the correct one, look at our current style of content, not the dificulty per say, but the changing class/job requierments from one to another and multiply your desired speed times 7. That is what you will be asking new players coming in to ultimately obtain. And thats just concidering the combat classes (ignoring the current needs for Hamlet.)

Tl;DR; Everyone wants a fun journey, but if the destination sucks, thats no fun either. Theres plenty of room for both without making the journey long and slow.

[XxOstiaxX]

Yes please do slow the pace of leveling, i need more time to stare at the emptiness of the world as i grind on the 16478646467 gazillion dodo.....