FFXI Dragoon No invites repeated

[ShivenCasull]

We aren't, or I'm not, arguing efficiency or situational choices (being, shit BLM vs awesome DRG)

If you have one job, you limit your availability. If you only play DRG, and your group has 4 other DD's, then someone will always be sitting, especially if they have limited jobs as well. This can be compounded by the fact you may not be as good as someone else and sit even more. I would personally rather participate than play one class; especially true for PUG events as DD spots are usually limited when those are formed.

You're right, and no one in particular is arguing that fact.

If you only leveled one job and it's direct subs you're only available for one spot in a party instead of 3-4. (spots being tank/dd/healer/support... etc)

That doesn't change the fact that due to current MMO trends, PuGs take the path of least resistance. In this case, having a party of WAR, WHM, BRD, BLM. Despite a DRG or MNK being as capable as a BLM as a DD.

[elreed]

Well i always look for paties when theyre starting to add ppls, so i can be the job that i want, and ussually i dont have any trouble, but you could make the party and be what you want, its your party its your rules, besides if you have a good ls, they will let you be what you want in any content they do, there are several strats for every fight.

[Hyrist]

We aren't, or I'm not, arguing efficiency or situational choices (being, shit BLM vs awesome DRG)

If you have one job, you limit your availability. If you only play DRG, and your group has 4 other DD's, then someone will always be sitting, especially if they have limited jobs as well. This can be compounded by the fact you may not be as good as someone else and sit even more. I would personally rather participate than play one class; especially true for PUG events as DD spots are usually limited when those are formed.

Then your entire argument is a red herring.

Having multiple jobs does not effect the individual effectiveness of a job to preform a task, as the game is balanced with the concept of a varied (read: one of every current job) composition party. So having multiple jobs available is irrelevant, the issue is a player conceived notion of job stacking to follow the course of least resistance, as was stated repeatedly, is the matter of discussion.

Stating that having multiple jobs means you're more likely to get access to runs is like saying having multiple characters grants you access to more runs in any MMO that only permits one class/job choice per character. It's irrelevant to class balance, and also irrelevant to participation problems for specific classes.

An analogy: The bridge across a main body of water is out due to neglect. You can bypass the problem because you purchased a ferry to take you back and forth. This does not change the fact that the bridge is out, and telling people "Buy a ferry, you'll never have to take the bridge!" can be both unappealing and/or cost prohibitive for many other people.

But just because they have to take a detour does not mean they won't get to the destination.

Personally, the only solution to class stacking is going to be bonuses that promote varied builds. I've a distinct feeling that Battle Regime's may very well be this bonus.

[ShivenCasull]

You know, Hyrist, Churchill's point is correct but not relevant to the point of the thread. If you have a tank and a DD leveled, you will get more parties (You won't get more parties on your DD per se but, the previous statement is still true)

It boils down to the presumtion that ranged DD's are easier to play. Combined with the less than inviting social atmosphere in the game the problem compounds. It creates this situation where players will go with "safe" and "easy" methods when it comes to inviting strangers to join difficult content.

[Churchill]

lol red herring. I'm bringing up a relevant fact for anyone who wants to be a job purist because invariably said purist will get invited to less parties, participate in less content and make more threads complaining about how his jobs are getting fucked. It doesn't really matter why, it could be everyone wrongly thinks that his job sucks (or rightly) or it could be that every group already has enough of what he has to offer.

The OP addresses a lack of invites on DRG, because the topic was shifted to efficiency and playerbase (read:internet) mentality doesn't damn any discussion of why you aren't getting invited to red herring status.

As far as the class stacking issues, it just takes time to sort itself out. Right now the game has 3 types of people playing, first time MMO'ers, people who quit XI because they hated dirty windower and XI elitism, and people who got tired of abyssea/old game (again XI). No one is playing this because it was such a great and innovative MMO with an amazing launch and this we all know.

When you look at what that means in terms of overall skill, we know it to be low. When you look at this in terms of general knowledge, we also know that to be low. It's only a given that people will take longer to come around to different strategies in PUG runs, and it's a given that people will want strangers to play the safest jobs for PUGs. A Ranged DD doesn't need to know how to read a chat log to combo on a moving or ambiguous target, a ranged DD doesn't have as much chance of running cracks straight into the tank/whm/otherDDs. We all know the examples. BLM is also the most forgiving job gear wise and you can pump out decent enough damage to contribute to a run while naked.

The jobs are close enough now that each one can outperform the other given player skill and the event, this is important because it's pretty rare in MMO's.

[Hyrist]

You know, Hyrist, Churchill's point is correct but not relevant to the point of the thread.

Which would be the definition of Red Herring, yes, I am aware of that.

lol red herring. I'm bringing up [an obvious fact] for anyone who wants to be a job purist ...

The OP addresses a lack of invites on DRG, because the topic was shifted to efficiency and playerbase (read:internet) mentality doesn't damn any discussion of why you aren't getting invited to red herring status.

Actually, it really does. It is irrelevant to the topic. You stop playing DRG, you get invites. It does not solve the issue about DRG getting invites. That was the subject raised. Not "I'm not getting invites." He was saying "Dragoon isn't getting invites."

"You can get invites if you're more flexible." Is completely irrelvant to the topic at hand, therefore, a Red Herring.

As far as the class stacking issues, it just takes time to sort itself out. Right now the game has 3 types of people playing, first time MMO'ers, people who quit XI because they hated dirty windower and XI elitism, and people who got tired of abyssea/old game (again XI). No one is playing this because it was such a great and innovative MMO with an amazing launch and this we all know.

When you look at what that means in terms of overall skill, we know it to be low. When you look at this in terms of general knowledge, we also know that to be low. It's only a given that people will take longer to come around to different strategies in PUG runs, and it's a given that people will want strangers to play the safest jobs for PUGs. A Ranged DD doesn't need to know how to read a chat log to combo on a moving or ambiguous target, a ranged DD doesn't have as much chance of running cracks straight into the tank/whm/otherDDs. We all know the examples. BLM is also the most forgiving job gear wise and you can pump out decent enough damage to contribute to a run while naked.

The jobs are close enough now that each one can outperform the other given player skill and the event, this is important because it's pretty rare in MMO's.

This part is relevant, as it is in relation to the cause and topic matter. I also agree with it whole heartedly.

We have a prevelent populace of FFXI players, who, for whatever reasons (both speculated upon and not mentioned) prefer the lowest common skill demoninator and path of least resistence when it comes to pick up parties.

I am not so certain that it will willingly 'sort itself out'. Without some change in the mechanics to encourage it, changes we may well see in 2.0.

However, I do agree that skill and gear does a good job of balacing out class performance, which is both rare and a very good thing in MMOs. If Yoshida and crew keeps this line, it will market good health for the game in the long term.

In the short term, there's nothing much for a Dragoon to do other than make his/her own parties, stick with pugs, suck it up, or switch jobs.

A player can bypass this by playing another, more popular job such as BLM, but that does nothing for the invite of Dragoons, as it did nothing for the invite of Dragoons in FFXI.

As a personal sidetrack - I'm not so much of a Job purist as I am an Altiholic. I create characters that I attach to specific identities as I did in my Single Player days. I coulden't switch Cecil back to Paladin just because I thought his skillset was useless in specific fights.

And after finding my favorite composition for my parties in games like FFIII, FFV, FFT, etc. I rarely shifted my group away from their choisen jobs. I found to open job system as a way to create character identity, not destroy it.

So I when I want to be 'flexible' as a player. I do what I did in Single Player games - I utalize a cast of characters. I willingly take the hit in gear availablity and droprate. But it seems Yoshi and crew have made Crafted gear pretty darn powerful in the game, so I'll either have one character with all the crafts, or split up the crafts between my characters, and make good crafted gear for them until oppertunity knocks for them to get a chance at drops.

I find that sort of approach fun, as odd as it sounds. And I'm really glad I got Legacy Status to support it, because I likely would not think it worthwhile to do otherwise.

[ShivenCasull]

I am not so certain that it will willingly 'sort itself out'. Without some change in the mechanics to encourage it, changes we may well see in 2.0.

As the game community as a whole recovers and develops, certain stigmas and currently unknown tactics will become known to more players. The average skill level of the player would increase as a result of guides being available and mechanics being set in stone etc.

Battle mechanics need to favor using different types of DDs without making the combat system overly complex.

In short, I agree, this was one of the main reasons why I quit XI.

[Velhart]

Also to mention, we will get a lot of non-FFXI vet players into the game who have a whole different ideal on how to approach MMO's, which may blend together and flex things out a little more.

[AmyNeudaiz]

Also to mention, we will get a lot of non-FFXI vet players into the game who have a whole different ideal on how to approach MMO's, which may blend together and flex things out a little more.

Yeah, no. I joined up a new linkshell of a bunch of FFXI players who made the hop over to help them out and they all gave me plenty of respect and listened to to the advice I gave, but once those few words passed through the text chat "I never played XI" instantly all the advice I give is bad. I can see there's some of that all around at least on my server as well.
I can already feel any credibility I have on this forum withering away just by typing that.

[Eekiki]

Yeah, no. I joined up a new linkshell of a bunch of FFXI players who made the hop over to help them out and they all gave me plenty of respect and listened to to the advice I gave, but once those few words passed through the text chat "I never played XI" instantly all the advice I give is bad. I can see there's some of that all around at least on my server as well.
I can already feel any credibility I have on this forum withering away just by typing that.

Tell them you beat Contra without using the 30 man code. That oughta get 'em back on your side.