Just remove leveling altogether if it's such a hindrance.

[Anonymoose]

Bravo, you once again failed to answer me and continued into obscurity. But hey, just forget it.

The answers are in there; I think you're confusing "obscurity" with articulation. Let me try with bullet points.

If you really believe there is no game until you reach cap, how is that not invalidating anything prior to cap?

• I don't believe that (but, hey, let's pretend I do.)
• The game starts when you create a character.
• You play the game as you level
• However, the game does not have much content at this point.
• The distinction between "Game" and "Content" is important in this case.
• The little content it has is repeated for exponentially longer than it takes to learn your new skills
• At cap, you gain access to more content.
• This does not invalidate the GAME before it
• However, repetition of the same minute content a second time is a waste considering you do not need to learn to play the game again, you need only to polish your ability to use new skills in that capped content.

[Dragon]

The answers are in there; I think you're confusing "obscurity" with articulation. Let me try with bullet points.

You did not answer it.

• I don't believe that (but, hey, let's pretend I do.)
• The game starts when you create a character.
• You play the game as you level
• However, the game does not have much content at this point.
• The distinction between "Game" and "Content" is important in this case.
• The little content it has is repeated for exponentially longer than it takes to learn your new skills
• At cap, you gain access to more content.
• This does not invalidate the GAME before it
• However, repetition of the same minute content a second time is a waste considering you do not need to learn to play the game again, you need only to polish your ability to use new skills in that capped content.

Once again: if we're to view the leveling as an experience, that anything pre-cap is useless, the game doesn't start until cap, what the hell is the point of having leveling at all? Don't tell me it's for tutorials or "learning your job" since you can do the whole "tutorial"/"learning your job" thing without leveling to begin with.

[Shurrikhan]

You did not answer it.



Once again: if we're to view the leveling as an experience, that anything pre-cap is useless, the game doesn't start until cap, what the hell is the point of having leveling at all? Don't tell me it's for tutorials or "learning your job" since you can do the whole "tutorial"/"learning your job" thing without leveling to begin with.

I'm sure Anon could give a better answer than I can, but here's my two cents. Leveling as a function is always technically superfluous. However, the RPG aspect of any MMORPG demands it, and not just because it's traditional. The effects of leveling on stats and the like is a means. The main purpose is to have a 'feel' of character progression.

Do you know of any good RPG that hasn't had at least a good 'feel' to it? A sense of the world, a sense of some sort of story of both one's character and the world at large. In an MMO, we can't progress the entire world on a dime for every character, so we only get half that. *I am ignoring 'phasing' here, probably because I dislike how it's been implemented and believe there are better ways to serve that function.

This has become less apparent since the loss of Physical Levels.

[Anonymoose]

if we're to view the leveling as an experience, that anything pre-cap is useless, the game doesn't start until cap, what the hell is the point of having leveling at all? Don't tell me it's for tutorials or "learning your job" since you can do the whole "tutorial"/"learning your job" thing without leveling to begin with.

I've answered all I can from a development standpoint, the rest just seems to be semantics and subjective assessment. If you went through a hierarchical tutorial that wasn't leveling, it'd just be leveling with a different name attached to it; if it weren't hierarchical (aka leveling), then you'd be throwing a horizontally fleshed out character to someone in order to play devil's advocate about the necessity of a long vertical grind, which has nothing to do with this discussion.

Isn't that getting a little ethereal? Perhaps you're meaning to convey a bigger message than your words read; I might just be missing some context. Overall, though, I don't see what else there is for me to answer aside from just musing philosophy.

[Dragon]

I've answered all I can from a development standpoint, the rest just seems to be semantics and subjective assessment. If you went through a hierarchical tutorial that wasn't leveling, it'd just be leveling with a different name attached to it; if it weren't hierarchical (aka leveling), then you'd be throwing a horizontally fleshed out character to someone in order to play devil's advocate about the necessity of a long vertical grind, which has nothing to do with this discussion.

Learning one's job can be a simple diagram to a few fights. However, I mentioned leveling in a specified grindful context...

Isn't that getting a little ethereal? Perhaps you're meaning to convey a bigger message than your words read; I might just be missing some context. Overall, though, I don't see what else there is for me to answer aside from just musing philosophy.

While it does have a bigger meaning that you're beginning to understand, I'm specifically targeting those that believe that leveling is a hindrance.