Just remove leveling altogether if it's such a hindrance.

[Churchill]

The only problem the current leveling system incurs is it teaches people very little about the content they're getting to Lv50 for. This is fine in most other games because even at launch the communities are much more skilled and the content they do isn't full of server side lag, ability delay or poor targeting system. In FF14, it causes you to really not understand the proper way to clear a dungeon, speed/tanking, etc. If there was a constraint that you had to be of a certain level and clear whatever new low level dungeon (like Totorak) there is in 2.0 a certain number of times before progressing past 30 I would be okay with that.


If you want to look at what a hardcore player would be interested in, it's end game content that takes skill to complete. The day they join the game they are working to compete and complete in this content. Faster leveling allows that to be viable, especially in a game where most dungeons require you to be able to change to another fully geared Lv50 job just to beat it.

People who want leveling to be a craptastic grindfest, combat skills so "no powerleveling gawwwd" and a grind implemented to even buy/use abilities aren't casual or hardcore, they are the equivalent of people who chase FFXIAH points in XI - people interested primarily in people thinking they are good players because they have all jobs at level 50 and not because they speed run AV/CC and easily beat Garuda (Hard). The argument that leveling longer makes you learn your job better is also fairly silly and gets beat to death in XI all the time. If you're a good player you could have a friend level a job for you and come back when it's finished and still be proficient, 10-15m of looking at abilities, setting up macro bar and buying gear and you're ready to go.

In fact, people that fall into the above category in this game are pretty rare because there is a very noticeable "1%". Maybe when (or should I say, "if") some better/more experienced MMO goers join up and the community ages trying to PUG content won't be so bad, but as it is some content is purely out of reach for PUGs to handle.

However, the simplest solution is to just make it so you can choose when you start your character, "do I want to level faster and enjoy the games actual content" or "do I want to look at raptors for the next 5 months"

[Anonymoose]

So you don't think that people complaining that "the game doesn't start until cap" think the cap doesn't invalidate anything? If you really believe there is no game until you reach cap, how is that not invalidating anything prior to cap?

There is game before cap, but not much content. I think that's a very important distinction to make. Until you get to cap, the game is mostly running between areas in small groups to kill the same mob repeatedly. I remember my first step into Dynamis in FFXI - was it a whole different world, a threshold crossing, compared to the trip up? Absolutely. It felt like an achievement getting in - but not because I killed 5,000 mandragora and some ants - it was because I had earned the right to play there by learning to play my JOB.

Honestly, I think the first trip up should take you a good investment of time - but what about the rest? Why should it take the same amount of time it took you to learn to play Final Fantasy XIV just to learn how to rotate a second set of skills?

The only reason I resist the crowd who basically seem to want the time investment required to level a balanced character at all to require you be one of the ~50% of MMO players who are males between the ages of 22 and 32 who work less than four hours a day is because after that first trip, it's so unnecessary.

The only thing that becomes "irrelevant" is the gear market, whose wares are outlevelled too fast to be worth their original cost at the will of a player determined to finish that job.

To me this has nothing to do with game development; much like the arguments that gear should have required levels, it's a cultural argument. People who wore LV50 gear to a LV10 party weren't kicked from the party and told to learn to play effectively, they just inspired people to come here and whine until SE played nanny.

Do I stand by my assessment that some people spend so much time leveling that they start to think they liked it because otherwise why do it? Yes.

I also think some other people like it because they enjoy being able to invest time others can't into getting something other's can't have.

I think some enjoy it because without comparative basis, value is hard to gauge.

There's a lot of reasons, but in my humble opinion, none of them make it worth my time to do the same exact action over and over and over without learning anything new from it. That's not an MMO - that's FarmVille.

[Dragon]

There is game before cap, but not much content. I think that's a very important distinction to make. Until you get to cap, the game is mostly running between areas in small groups to kill the same mob repeatedly. I remember my first step into Dynamis in FFXI - was it a whole different world, a threshold crossing, compared to the trip up? Absolutely. It felt like an achievement getting in - but not because I killed 5,000 mandragora and some ants - it was because I had earned the right to play there by learning to play my JOB.

Honestly, I think the first trip up should take you a good investment of time - but what about the rest? Why should it take the same amount of time it took you to learn to play Final Fantasy XIV just to learn how to rotate a second set of skills?

The only reason I resist the crowd who basically seem to want the time investment required to level a balanced character at all to require you be one of the ~50% of MMO players who are males between the ages of 22 and 32 who work less than four hours a day is because after that first trip, it's so unnecessary.

The only thing that becomes "irrelevant" is the gear market, whose wares are outlevelled too fast to be worth their original cost at the will of a player determined to finish that job.

To me this has nothing to do with game development; much like the arguments that gear should have required levels, it's a cultural argument. People who wore LV50 gear to a LV10 party weren't kicked from the party and told to learn to play effectively, they just inspired people to come here and whine until SE played nanny.

Do I stand by my assessment that some people spend so much time leveling that they start to think they liked it because otherwise why do it? Yes.

I also think some other people like it because they enjoy being able to invest time others can't into getting something other's can't have.

I think some enjoy it because without comparative basis, value is hard to gauge.

There's a lot of reasons, but in my humble opinion, none of them make it worth my time to do the same exact action over and over and over without learning anything new from it. That's not an MMO - that's FarmVille.

Bravo, you once again failed to answer me and continued into obscurity. But hey, just forget it.

[Shurrikhan]

well the people who dont like the level speed can always leave. nothings stopping you the FACT is 55% more than half the game agree its fine. Tough break sorry. only 21% said its to fast but only 3% actually post on forums. SE is going to cater to the masses not the few. and beside SE could increase the xp to get to 50 to 51 to 250k. Cause look at the jump to get rank ups from GC 40k to 25k to rank up.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/46535 just incase you need to see the player polls again.

Gotta say. Generally, a 55% approval rating is nothing to be proud of.

You can separate the 'fine with it' and the 'not fine with it' at any time. That doesn't mean those 'fine with it' couldn't like it more if there were changes. It just requires thinking on a different level, or else one group wants to go left and the other right before potentially realizing it's a loop.

[Majidah]

I'd remove the main level and give each skill a level.

The higher your skill level, the higher its performance.

[Haibel]

let's just bring back physical levels and get rid of all other levels and just quest all skills.

[Churchill]

It was actually closer to 70%, fine with it or it should be faster.

[KiriA500]

Gotta say. Generally, a 55% approval rating is nothing to be proud of.

You can separate the 'fine with it' and the 'not fine with it' at any time. That doesn't mean those 'fine with it' couldn't like it more if there were changes. It just requires thinking on a different level, or else one group wants to go left and the other right before potentially realizing it's a loop.

55% from a 4-question poll is good though. It doubled, almost tripled the next highest vote.

You can try and sugar coat it by saying "Oh, this poll would have been no, but blah blah blah," a vast majority of FFXIV players feel the leveling is fine how it is. Me being one of them.

[Shurrikhan]

Bravo, you once again failed to answer me and continued into obscurity. But hey, just forget it.

I think he answered you as well as possible there.

But, let's just go ahead and assume that leveling is worthless. Putting aside it's use for gradually gaining (player, not just character) experience in the game, you could find enough fault in any section of the roles meant for leveling or in the usability of the leveling experience after reaching cap to approximate leveling as being useless.

What would you do about it?

No hyperbole. Seriously, what would you do?

[Shurrikhan]

55% from a 4-question poll is good though. It doubled, almost tripled the next highest vote.

You can try and sugar coat it by saying "Oh, this poll would have been no, but blah blah blah," a vast majority of FFXIV players feel the leveling is fine how it is. Me being one of them.

I'm generally one of them too, especially if we're just talking about the rate. Though, perhaps the term 'tolerable' would be more appropriate. I take no issue with it. I'm not motivated by it. That just doesn't mean I'm going to oppose change to protect something I'm at an impasse with. I'd be very interested and careful of what the change would be, but no rule of thumb against change itself exists.

I guess I'm in the group of "if it's rusty, clean it off" more than "if it's not broken, don't fix it" though.