Skill trees and Alternate Advancement

[DeadRiser]

Lol

"People are going to find a certain dps build and not invite people who are don't have that tree"
"So many people are only going to go for one specific type of tree when it's 'the one'".

And the community doesn't do that with dps? Um hello BLM/BRD/WHM/WAR. Might not have been as bad as it was, it just take SE part to balance it out more. They can do a skill tree (with changeable properties), they just have to balance and do it correctly. I love the classes/jobs we have now, just wish there was more diffrentiating things between two dragoons if they two choose so. I like uniqueness... but that's one thing I've noticed the community on the forums at least doesn't like lol

[Krausus]

Lol

"People are going to find a certain dps build and not invite people who are don't have that tree"
"So many people are only going to go for one specific type of tree when it's 'the one'".

And the community doesn't do that with dps? Um hello BLM/BRD/WHM/WAR. Might not have been as bad as it was, it just take SE part to balance it out more. They can do a skill tree (with changeable properties), they just have to balance and do it correctly. I love the classes/jobs we have now, just wish there was more diffrentiating things between two dragoons if they two choose so. I like uniqueness... but that's one thing I've noticed the community on the forums at least doesn't like lol

no one ever said people dont already do that it is proven time and time again that people already do that so people would still do that and the OPs suggestion to give more options in theory sounds good but again it wont matter the community will negate the purpose by flocking to a certain build. Nothing will change aside from more work for devs, and forums flooded with "whats the best build for class A", "this is", "no its not you stupid ass noob this is!", " you are both stupid ass noobs because this is actually the best!" "ask BG they know the best build and all of you stop being stupid ass noobs!"

[DeadRiser]

no one ever said people dont already do that it is proven time and time again that people already do that so people would still do that and the OPs suggestion to give more options in theory sounds good but again it wont matter the community will negate the purpose by flocking to a certain build. Nothing will change aside from more work for devs, and forums flooded with "whats the best build for class A", "this is", "no its not you stupid ass noob this is!", " you are both stupid ass noobs because this is actually the best!" "ask BG they know the best build and all of you stop being stupid ass noobs!"

People laugh at me when I go as MRD still on Ifrit fights. They think I can't do good damage and will die from animation lock.

I end up doing fairly decent damage and also survive hellfire everytime, even if there is nails still up. People will learn if givin the chance...

[Krausus]

People laugh at me when I go as MRD still on Ifrit fights. They think I can't do good damage and will die from animation lock.

I end up doing fairly decent damage and also survive hellfire everytime, even if there is nails still up. People will learn if givin the chance...

Not sure how this has anything to do with what I said. But on the subject no class should be excluded from Ifrit, I mean it is Ifrit for gods sakes....

[DeadRiser]

Not sure how this has anything to do with what I said. But on the subject no class should be excluded from Ifrit, I mean it is Ifrit for gods sakes....

Just like no skill tree or whatever should be excluded from content. Each would have it's use, people will nit pick whatever but they will eventually get over it.

[Krausus]

Just like no skill tree or whatever should be excluded from content. Each would have it's use, people will nit pick whatever but they will eventually get over it.

no its not the same, your argument is people laugh at you for bringing WAR for Ifrit. 2 things make that a moot point. 1 Ifirit is not so hard that you have to have xyz classes to succeed outside of needing healer and tank at the very least. And 2. WAR is a good class with high survivability very good self heals, and pretty good damage. A better argument would be people laugh at me for bringing MRD which would be the equivalent of bringing a shitty skill tree speced WAR vs a good skill tree speced WAR

EDIT: I now see you actually did say MRD...yeah I would laugh at you to, sorry you are gimping yourself and your party.

[DeadRiser]

EDIT: I now see you actually did say MRD...yeah I would laugh at you to, sorry you are gimping yourself and your party.

To each his own. Your just like the people that would laugh at people that selected the "unwanted" skill tree. Gimping myself. HA High survivability and decent damage (plus back up heals/support/raise) with random people is gimping myself.... lol think about it dude

[Kyra]

Yeah being able to respec a skill tree is fine, as long as it takes a little bit of effort and time, maybe a repeatable quest with a 1 week cooldown, and even then you should only get 2/3 of the exp back to respec a new tree with. The whole point of it will be to make a choice and stick with it, not respecing every time you do a new dungeon or primal, thats the same as just changing to a different job for whatever content you do.

Changing jobs gives you options already. If you want to fight ifrit but your blm is specialised in fire, then fight him with another job. Or fight him with your fire blackmage, because it wont be any worse than it was before and you will still have your thunder nukes the same as now and increased fire resist, its just a thunder specialised blm will do more dmg for that particular fight than you.

Oh no! so your not as good as a thunder blackmage for the ifrit fight, get over it lol, you made that choice and when you do a fight with a boss weak to fire or AoE is needed its the thunder blackmage that will be crying or accepting the choice he made.

Dont use the argument that everyone will choose the best possible build, because there would be no best possible build for everything. thats the whole point. You might be great at somethings, average at other things and suck at other stuff (compared to people that have chosen other specialities).

[Shurrikhan]

no one ever said people dont already do that it is proven time and time again that people already do that so people would still do that and the OPs suggestion to give more options in theory sounds good but again it wont matter the community will negate the purpose by flocking to a certain build. Nothing will change aside from more work for devs, and forums flooded with "whats the best build for class A", "this is", "no its not you stupid ass noob this is!", " you are both stupid ass noobs because this is actually the best!" "ask BG they know the best build and all of you stop being stupid ass noobs!"

What's funny about the OP build of any given time, as long as the system is complex enough, is that it's usually one of many, but a good player hasn't tried out the other ones yet. When WoW still had the lengthy WotLK talents, I could consistently beat a forum spec in the hands of any player with my gearscore unless the stats were perfectly aligned for that spec and the player was more experienced than me.

Double death rune Frost/Blood, win. Howling Blast / Frost Strike heavy Frost, win. Ghoul-less Unholy, still win. ISS Gambit MM, win. Agil MM, win. Steady Cobra Strikes Beastmastery, win.

Even putting aside the loss of utility in your top DPS specs, the difference is usually marginal in a well-crafted system and will be beaten in more and more situations inversely to how large that margin is, due to the perfection and rigidity required. It's unlikely FFXIV would every attempt something of that level, but the skill tree system is not innately flawed.

[Krausus]

What's funny about the OP build of any given time, as long as the system is complex enough, is that it's usually one of many, but a good player hasn't tried out the other ones yet. When WoW still had the lengthy WotLK talents, I could consistently beat a forum spec in the hands of any player with my gearscore unless the stats were perfectly aligned for that spec and the player was more experienced than me.

Double death rune Frost/Blood, win. Howling Blast / Frost Strike heavy Frost, win. Ghoul-less Unholy, still win. ISS Gambit MM, win. Agil MM, win. Steady Cobra Strikes Beastmastery, win.

Even putting aside the loss of utility in your top DPS specs, the difference is usually marginal in a well-crafted system and will be beaten in more and more situations inversely to how large that margin is, due to the perfection and rigidity required. It's unlikely FFXIV would every attempt something of that level, but the skill tree system is not innately flawed.

though I haven't played wow since like TBC last I recall it was a nightmare balancing that game. Personally I don't care if we have skill trees It wont effect me much because I could live with them or without. I'm just basically stating the obvious and very much an ongoing trend since XI.... sub NIN anyone?