What can SE learn from Bioware's failing Star Wars MMO?

[Agoven]

MMOs will go the way of MUDS...truly it's a fad that is beginning to wane.

We all knew SWOTOR would fail...said it so before it launched...it's like watching a movie you can only watch it so many times.

It's the same reason why LOTRO wasn't very successful either.

Fan boys/girls only cling to the fad for so long and grow out of it...or find a new fad to get into.

The reason why Final Fantasy is long staying is because it's first and foremost Final Fantasy...not a fad.

[DeadRiser]

MMOs will go the way of MUDS...truly it's a fad that is beginning to wane.

We all knew SWOTOR would fail...said it so before it launched...it's like watching a movie you can only watch it so many times.

It's the same reason why LOTRO wasn't very successful either.

Fan boys/girls only cling to the fad for so long and grow out of it...or find a new fad to get into.

The reason why Final Fantasy is long staying is because it's first and foremost Final Fantasy...not a fad.

LOL I love Final Fantasy and the series.. but I can't take this seriously. The only reason XIV is still alive is the fan boys/girls that stayed...

[Duelle]

LOL I love Final Fantasy and the series.. but I can't take this seriously. The only reason XIV is still alive is the fan boys/girls that stayed...

This. As mentioned, XIV is not that different from games like TOR. The main difference is that unlike what companies like EA do (abandon their games), SE decided to try remaking the game. Sure, the fact that Final Fantasy is a flagship brand may have had something to do with it; after all, if it had been Mana Online, or Romancing Saga Online, or World of Chrono Trigger, I doubt SE would have pulled as many resources for them as it has for XIV.

For the record, the reason I was driven away from TOR was actually the bullshit that took place over the mod system. May have been my own fault for clinging to the ambrosia of near perfection that was the beta's mod system (two builds before launch), but it was far far better than what we got at launch, and still is a ground-breaking concept the developers chose not to go with.

I actually liked the class storylines, and the fact that it at least tried to tie up loose ends from the Knights of the Old Republic games (though I'll be the first to say bringing Revan into the flashpoints was a huge mistake). I liked the companions and what they added to character dynamics, because unlike other games, we're forced to develop personalities for our characters as we play the story and make decisions (my jedi knight was a by-the-book guy unless there were women involved, for example).

[DeadRiser]

This. As mentioned, XIV is not that different from games like TOR. The main difference is that unlike what companies like EA do (abandon their games), SE decided to try remaking the game. Sure, the fact that Final Fantasy is a flagship brand may have had something to do with it; after all, if it had been Mana Online, or Romancing Saga Online, or World of Chrono Trigger, I doubt SE would have pulled as many resources for them as it has for XIV.

I just love how it's not AS MUCH as a spamfest as SWTOR and other MMO's are. Your current action has to complete and you can't just stop it mid action. I am one of the few that likes the way we are planted to the ground when we select an action (except for self buffs and whatnot). It just makes battle flow and look more beautiful. In other mmo's, I never pay attention to my character. In XIV, I do a lot of the time just to watch the animations. I want SE to build up on that. I don't want them to do what all the other MMO's have done already and I'm afraid that's what they are going to do.

[Duelle]

I just love how it's not AS MUCH as a spamfest as SWTOR and other MMO's are. Your current action has to complete and you can't just stop it mid action. I am one of the few that likes the way we are planted to the ground when we select an action (except for self buffs and whatnot). It just makes battle flow and look more beautiful. In other mmo's, I never pay attention to my character. In XIV, I do a lot of the time just to watch the animations. I want SE to build up on that. I don't want them to do what all the other MMO's have done already and I'm afraid that's what they are going to do.

I'm the opposite, because I enjoy encounters where I have to move around and watch out for things in the environment. I found XI's battle engine and fights very boring for the most part, and at the same time understand that type of design severely limits how you can design bosses; the only thing that attempted to make them seem difficult was the amount of damage flying around and steep resource limits on mages. You couldn't do a Loatheb-type encounter in FFXI, for example. Doubt you could do one in this game yet, as healing hasn't quite gotten there.

[Miliant]

I am perplexed by two things.

The first is the fact that you somehow don't consider Tanaka's convoluting grindfest of a game a failure. FFXIV failed even worse than SWTOR. The only reason FFXIV is alive right now is because of Yoshida's changes and Square's infinite patience with it. These changes were made to make the game more user-friendly (or as you put it, moron-friendly).

The second thing is the end objective of your post. I presume you base it on the assumption that FFXIV is becoming a game "only for casuals" and that's what you want to avoid by means of this post. Still, looking at the game, I fail to see how FFXIV is becoming a game that caters "only to casuals," with most content being added for large groups of Lv50s. Furthermore, several times Yoshida's stated that his idea is to cater to everyone. So, overall, I see no reason for concern.

[DeadRiser]

I'm the opposite, because I enjoy encounters where I have to move around and watch out for things in the environment. I found XI's battle engine and fights very boring for the most part, and at the same time understand that type of design severely limits how you can design bosses; the only thing that attempted to make them seem difficult was the amount of damage flying around and steep resource limits on mages. You couldn't do a Loatheb-type encounter in FFXI, for example. Doubt you could do one in this game yet, as healing hasn't quite gotten there.

Don't get me wrong, I love moving in combat. I just like the idea of planting yourself in the ground for a short amount of time to do crazy damage. It makes sense. Like for Ifrit. You watch what he does and when you think it's safe, you use one of your weaponskills to do crazy damage.

[Alokin1988]

MMOs will go the way of MUDS...truly it's a fad that is beginning to wane.

We all knew SWOTOR would fail...said it so before it launched...it's like watching a movie you can only watch it so many times.

It's the same reason why LOTRO wasn't very successful either.

Fan boys/girls only cling to the fad for so long and grow out of it...or find a new fad to get into.

The reason why Final Fantasy is long staying is because it's first and foremost Final Fantasy...not a fad.

MMO's are not a fad, they're a genre. The problem is they've not been involving since WoW came out until this point.

We knew SWTOR would fail not because of it being an MMO or the Star Wars franchise but because it was a bad game. Same thing with LOTRO. If anything the fact that their basted on Star Wars and Lord of the Rings is probably the main reason why they're still going. As a matter of fact LOTRO is still doing very well, they're even getting an expansion this/next year.

Fan boys/girls don't cling to fads, the cling to whatever they're fans of. A Star Wars fanboy will never abandon Star Wars for the next big thing, they're going to stay with Star Wars. That's what a fanboy is, that's what a fanboy does.

Final Fantasy is no different from the other two. The only reason why all 3 have not been terminated completely is because of their name.

[Pandastirfry]

The reason why Final Fantasy is long staying is because it's first and foremost Final Fantasy...not a fad.

I can't let this go by without comment...
How exactly do you justify the statement that "Star Wars", a franchise that debuted in 1977 and still enjoys broad market appeal and new additions to it 35 years later, is "just a fad" while "Final Fantasy" which released in 1987 and enjoys comparatively narrower market appeal but still is a continuously updated franchise is not a fad but a cultural touchstone?



And as to MUDs dying off... You do know what killed them right? MMORPGs, why play text only when Everquest has actual characters. What will kill the MMORPG will be it's replacement not some new fad but genuine innovation to the genre, like full immersion VR or some such nonsense

[Astorlok]

I can't let this go by without comment...
How exactly do you justify the statement that "Star Wars", a franchise that debuted in 1977 and still enjoys broad market appeal and new additions to it 35 years later, is "just a fad" while "Final Fantasy" which released in 1987 and enjoys comparatively narrower market appeal but still is a continuously updated franchise is not a fad but a cultural touchstone?

And as to MUDs dying off... You do know what killed them right? MMORPGs, why play text only when Everquest has actual characters. What will kill the MMORPG will be it's replacement not some new fad but genuine innovation to the genre, like full immersion VR or some such nonsense

I don't think VR is going to make any appearances any time soon. Considering the way tech is developing, I would expect AR games to appear in our future. Hell some of them have already appeared, just look at some of the stuff on the 3DS and PSP Vita. I think it would be pretty killer to come home from work, pick up a stick-like peripheral and head out into my local woods or into my backyard and quest for a bit.