What can SE learn from Bioware's failing Star Wars MMO?

[Lanceton]

To me, the same factor which prevented me from buying SW:TOR after trying out its beta, made me quit wow and barely kept me with FF14, is the graphic.

[Jinrya-Geki]

You would think the Star Wars universe would provide an ideal setting for an MMO. It has everything, from `wizards` to swordplay to epic duels to guys with blaster rifles. It has this planet, that planet, a rich and well established lore, depth, and so on and so forth. Despite this, it looks like Bioware and Lucas Arts have just released one huge dud on the MMO market. Rumors are circulating that Bioware is now exploring the F2P model and just completed a wave of free server transfers to accommodate people playing on empty servers. While advocates of F2P might argue otherwise... this to me sounds like the last gasps of an MMO in serious trouble. If this is true, considering the alleged investment in development and the fact that they had all of the Star Wars universe at their disposal, this can, should and will be considered a monumental failure.

Are you cracking a joke at me?

[Xatsh]

What can SE take out of this.

STOP MAKING WOW CLONE, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM FAIL!!!

Besides that make something original, make enough content that people cannot complete it as quick as you add it. No one can deny WoW is a great game, but no one wants to play WoW again from level 1 with just new skins.

Make a mmo with content for everyone not just the 1hr a day casuals.

[Azurymber]

Also SWTOR had something like 100+ servers. So i don`t think this moving servers thing is really a sign the game is dying completely. Remember, SW tor had 100ish servers all as big as ffxiv servers. FFXIV has like 8?

[Alhanelem]

(that challenge is a remnant of the past)

Challenge isn't a remenant of the past. Challenge due to game design defects is. Everquest and FFXI weren't successful because of punishing death penalties or hours of walking. They were successful because the battles were fun and the experience was immersive. MMOs fail because they get half-assed in a genre where there are already too many to choose from. MMOs don't succeed or fail purely because they are or are not challenging enough. They succeed or fail because of poorly designed mechanics, clunky user interfaces, copypasted NPCs terrain etc, and general half-assery. MMOs are huge projects. No matter how huge your game world is, the players expect you to fill it and keep it interesting. But the bigger it gets, the harder it is to accomplish.

FFXIV tanked at launch because they half-assed it. Then SE learned their lesson and began to take their time to make more of the right calls.

[Sylfa]

Challenge isn't a remenant of the past. Challenge due to game design defects is. Everquest and FFXI weren't successful because of punishing death penalties or hours of walking. ...

...MMOs fail because they get half-assed in a genre where there are already too many to choose from...

I agree with these sentiments completely


As a person who did hardcore endgame in both FFXI and World of Warcraft, having cleared the endgame hard-mode raids in SWTOR once, and having casually played Rift, Age of Conan, and WAR, I feel like I have a unique ability to contribute on this topic.

Casuals (by far the lion's share of all MMO players) keep playing because of immersion, discovery, plot and flashy explosions. Casual players dislike losing, and are more prone (than non-casual players) to give up and go somewhere else when things are too buggy, or get too challenging.

non-casuals keep playing for titles, challenging bosses that the casuals will never kill, and oh yeah - gear. Gear that promotes emergent content. The gear you get is meaningless if it doesn't bring about new ways to play the game. Gear needs to enable you to do things once thought impossible, or make previously unplayable specs viable for anyone to care about it.


SWTOR's colossal mistake is they aimed at the casual gamer while giving them none of the high-quality window-dressing they wanted, while utterly neglecting the non-casual player:



(my) SWTOR Casual Perspective: There was no immersion; the graphics were well-done (considering the low system requirements) but cut and pasted buildings and uninspired geography and in-game architecture made the world seem bland. The game and its animations were buggy, a turn-off for everyone - but especially to casuals.

(my) SWTOR non-casual perspective: Hardcore gamers found the game without challenge - many of the hardest hard mode raids were too easy to keep them interested, the gear was too easily obtained, and no new ways to play emerged from acquiring it. I finished the content in a few weeks, discovered that the gear was meaningless, and moved on.


I think FFXIV is in a much better spot, and is on the way to a magnificent recovery.


(my) FFXIV Casual perspective: I think FFXIV has nailed the immerson and discovery points. By the time my first class was 4/5ths leveled in any mmo (besides the FF series and WoW), I'd already been nearly everywhere and done nearly everything. I've just reached 40 in my first class, and I think I've seen less than a quarter of all there is. It might could use more explosions, but the ones we have are pretty good.

(my) FFXIV non-casual Perspective: Here is where I'm not especially qualified to answer, as I'm not at endgame yet. I can tell there's quite a lot of achievements to get, and I've seen that the endgame gear is no picnic to acquire - which is a plus to me. On the other hand, I've also heard that the endgame bosses are really easy - So I'm hoping this changes


While I do adore the FF series for its uniqueness, I don't think FFXIV should abandon every concept that WoW and its clones brought to the table.

-Nobody is going to complain if grouping was, in the style of WoW, easier and more encouraged (note that I mean grouping encouraged, not soloing discouraged) at low levels, especailly not the casuals.

-Nobody would complain of a wow-like sense of direction (breadcrumb quests) to point you where you might want to level at next

-Nobody would complain if there were slightly more WoW-like auction-house functionality (level and stat filters, for example).

-Nobody would complain if ability strengths and stat coefficients were more transparent, so one could make informed gear choices without spending an hour with a spreadsheet and a theorycrafting website.


TL;DR -WoW clones do some things better than FFXIV, and some things much worse. They made mistakes, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater-

[Manticore]

I dont think Star Wars is a monumental failure by any means, it is probably one of the greatest games i've ever played. Full voice acting, in depth storylines, Star Wars universe, beautiful worlds, I have every class at 50 and have seen everything there is to see, and that is the only problem I have with the game. I have completed everything, I have a full set of endgame armor best in every slot and best in every pvp slot for 2 of my characters republic and sith. The problem is, I beat the game 3 months in. They just need more content, I think it is a great game.


XIV just needs to take elements from popular MMOs, and use it to SUPPLEMENT XIV not clone it. XIV is unique in it's own right and should never "Clone" anything, but by taking elements that work and players enjoy from other games, it will only make XIV better.

Don't copy, supplement information and things from other games for your original and unique game.

[Amherst]

in depth storylines

You obviously weren't playing as a Smuggler.

[Alhanelem]

Too many companies are trying to just cash in on WoW's success and the result is too many MMOs with not enough people to play them. Any developers currently considering one ought to think twice about doing it, no matter how good of a job they think they can do.

[Scherwiz]

Star Wars : The Hand Hold Republic