[dev 1021] [Suggestion] Please consider this SP loss system for Death

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

Actually, I have. It's in the OP.

The problem here is you are making the claim that we shouldn't have SP loss. But you have failed to give even 1 reason why. How about you start at the beginning (giving reasons for why SP is a bad idea) rather than just saying, "Mommy, I don't want to eat my brocolli!"

By the way, "Other MMOs don't have xp loss" is not an argument since there are LOTS of MMOs that have xp loss.

What's in your OP, the only thing I see is that money won't be a deterrent. That's not much of a good reason, especially since the same applies for your system. You haven't given me a good reason why having an SP loss would be better, the only thing you've said is choice, which ALSO in an equipment repair system. Hell, you haven't disproved that your system is vastly different from an equipment repair system. It's your job to convince me why an SP loss system would be better, because the system I want is going to be in place.

Anyway, the reason I don't want to lose SP is because it's nothing but a timesink, nothing is worse than spending an hour, two hours, or three hours getting a bunch of EXP and seeing half of it go away because of one death. All that wasted time, I could be getting my subjob quest done, but now I have to level up again. Now you're probably gonna say, "It's a penalty, it's supposed to be bad!!", but if it's so supposed to be that way, why are you even suggesting an option to buy it back? I still think there's other ways to penalize players than taking away SP.

I said MMOs these days, besides if there's LOTS of MMOs with EXP loss then you should probably be playing those instead. Anyway this is last post in this topic, I don't care what else you write, so you don't even have to respond to this message.

[Kaedan]

Anyway, the reason I don't want to lose SP is because it's nothing but a timesink, nothing is worse than spending an hour, two hours, or three hours getting a bunch of EXP and seeing half of it go away because of one death. All that wasted time, I could be getting my subjob quest done, but now I have to level up again. Now you're probably gonna say, "It's a penalty, it's supposed to be bad!!", but if it's so supposed to be that way, why are you even suggesting an option to buy it back? I still think there's other ways to penalize players than taking away SP.

Gear damage is a timesink. Weakness is a timesink... any form of penalty is a timesink. So you have no point. My point is that Gil is so easy to get, that it's not a significant enough discouragement. If you would bother reading, I said I prefer Anima as the buyback currency, but I put Gil in there as an option for SE to consider as well.

I finally see your problem. You seem to think that you'll lose hours of SP from a single death. That's RIDICULOUS. I suggested maybe 5% of the SP needed to level. SP penalties don't have to be as harsh as they were in FFXI.

I said MMOs these days, besides if there's LOTS of MMOs with EXP loss then you should probably be playing those instead. Anyway this is last post in this topic, I don't care what else you write, so you don't even have to respond to this message.

So very mature of you. At least we won't need to listen to you repeating "I don't want SP loss" over and over without any real reasoning behind it. I especially loved the "go back to <insert MMO> retort". *rolleyes*

Aion was released "these days". It has an xp penalty.

[DeadRiser]

Lol apparently I'm your b*tch Kaedan for siding with you. It's funny how he thinks he's gold because he doesn't agree with you.
Plus you blunty stated that after the second or third death in a row, you couldn't buy it back... but apparently he can't read neither...

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

Gear damage is a timesink. Weakness is a timesink... any form of penalty is a timesink. So you have no point. My point is that Gil is so easy to get, that it's not a significant enough discouragement. If you would bother reading, I said I prefer Anima as the buyback currency, but I put Gil in there as an option for SE to consider as well.

I finally see your problem. You seem to think that you'll lose hours of SP from a single death. That's RIDICULOUS. I suggested maybe 5% of the SP needed to level. SP penalties don't have to be as harsh as they were in FFXI.




So very mature of you. At least we won't need to listen to you repeating "I don't want SP loss" over and over without any real reasoning behind it. I especially loved the "go back to <insert MMO> retort". *rolleyes*

Aion was released "these days". It has an xp penalty.

Here you go, you lured me back in. True, those things are timesinks, in that case why have a SP penalty? A penalty does NOT have to a timesink, I suggested awhile back if you died a over certain amount of times over a week, you have to buy your guildleves for awhile, that's a penalty and not a timesink. Using Anima is the same thing as using Gil, there's no difference! If Gil is easy to get then people would have no problem buying Anima. I know you said you would get back a limited amount of Anima, but if you're going to do that, why not limit the amount of Gil instead? If they did that, you don't have a point either.

You're not very mature yourself, especially with your "rolleyes" remark. You should be happy that I'm posting, no one else seems to care about your topic or idea.

[Kaedan]

I wasn't expecting you to stay gone anyway. Otherwise I wouldn't have replied.

SP is tried and tested and works. And it has evolved. It used to be just straight SP loss, but as more casuals joined the scene, they relaxed the penalty a bit and started allowing for buyback.

The problem with your idea of forcing you to buy Guildleves if you die too many times in a week is A) the penalty doesn't kick in for a long time (no true reason to worry about it) and B) again, it's just gil.

And there is a GIANT difference between Anima and Gil. Anima is limited and only refreshes at a fixed rate. Gil is not. You couldn't just limit the amount of Gil since the economy is already flooded with too much (and if they did, as soon as they started, new players would be at a HUGE disadvantage).

I'm not the one who said "go back and play a different game" just because I disagreed with what we should have for a death penalty.

So you still have yet to explain why it's so horrible to lose SP. Even better, why it's so horrible to have the choice of losing SP or Anima. There are a plethora of different ways we could handle death penalty, and no matter what you end up doing it's going to be a timesink somewhere down the line. Even if its in the form of positive reinforcement.

[RobotRivers]

The amount of SP lost would be up to SE. I believe FFXI was a base 10% without furnature that reduced it, so that would obviously be too high. If I had to make a ballpark guess, I would say 5% loss per death. And as long as you don't die while weakened (or within a certain time period... that would be up to SE), then you can buy it back with Anima (again, my preferred method is buyback with Anima).

P.S. And no, I was not being serious about losing gear on death. But I was merely illustrating the fact that crafters DO have a penalty for failure, unlike what Akuun was trying to claim.

Thank You Kaedan for that EXCELLENT answer.I'm not a big fan of sp/xp lost upon death, HOWEVER, if thats the rate at which sp/xp is lost im actually all for it. Now that I've agreed this specific circumstance SOMEONE will most likely say that its not enough of a deterrent so it should be upped to 15~25% loss on death, and you know what... don't even go there.

[Kaedan]

Thank You Kaedan for that EXCELLENT answer.I'm not a big fan of sp/xp lost upon death, HOWEVER, if thats the rate at which sp/xp is lost im actually all for it. Now that I've agreed this specific circumstance SOMEONE will most likely say that its not enough of a deterrent so it should be upped to 15~25% loss on death, and you know what... don't even go there.

Thank you. I don't think you will get a lot of people wanting more than a 5% loss. I'm willing to bet that even the "super hardcores" who claim they want a severe penalty didn't like FFXI's high amount.

[ClawFury]

Instead of SP/EXP lose why not Freeze SP/EXP gain as an added effect of weakness? 2 minutes of not being able to gain SP/EXP doesn't seem harsh

Losing SP/EXP is pretty harsh for a penalty as it takes long enough to reach 50 as it is

[Kaedan]

Instead of SP/EXP lose why not Freeze SP/EXP gain as an added effect of weakness? 2 minutes of not being able to gain SP/EXP doesn't seem harsh

Losing SP/EXP is pretty harsh for a penalty as it takes long enough to reach 50 as it is

That, actually, is a rather good idea.

It involves losing SP, but disguises it in such a way as to change the psychology behind it. Bravo, I approve.

I still like my idea, but I would be willing to accept yours as well.

[Grit]

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

1. It wouldn't stop people from throwing weakened bodies at NMs. You don't fight NMs for Experience Points.

2. It wouldn't stop people from acting carelessly.. because they would just wait for weakened to wear off before fighting (like they already do most of the time..)

If the weakened state (specifically the condition of not being able to receive SP) was 5+ minutes long, AND we had more non-guildleve content, this might work. But only 2 minutes with everybody doing guildleves.. definitely not.