[dev 1021] [Suggestion] Please consider this SP loss system for Death

[Dragonhand]

The problem is even in FFXI the death penalty didn't promote players to be any better. The bad players will still bad so it fails in that regard. Also when most of this games content is designed to WTF pwn you regardless of skill the harsh death penalty just flat out makes no sense. Making players stand around for 3 minutes with their hands in their pockets is within the tolerable threshold and punishment enough.

I've faced xp loss only in Lineage 2, when the game had a 4% xp loss. When those 4% started to mean a full week of farming mobs, I started to be much more carefully and dedicated into not dieing uselessly by staying in healers range and keep my healer alive at all costs. Obviously bad players will remain bad players, that will happen with or without penaltys. But medium players will fell more motivated to learn how to properly do things when they start deleveling instead of leveling. My point of view...

I, too, am against this idea. EXP loss is what made me quit FFXI in the end, it makes things too harsh when your death is caused by the carelessness of others AND EXP/SP is our character growth, what we work so hard for. I don't like having my reward being taken away.

So, please, never change the death system for EXP/SP loss. Thank you.

Do you know what happens in real life when you die? You guessed it, you die.
In my perfect concept of a game, death penalty would include the real chance of losing your character.
Does it seams too much for you? Diablo 2 have the Hardcore system where if u died it would be permanently, no second chances. And it still had an huge player base. But I'm not so rigid, I don't think that losing your character over death would be beneficial to a game (unless some very strict rigid conditions apply).

In final fantasy, saying I don't my "effort be taken away" finds a great solution in a death penalty system, and the solution is simply play better.



Also, thumbs up for Mugiwara. "Im tired of my hand being held" is exactly my thoughts, had enough of that in wow.

[Xzen]

I've faced xp loss only in Lineage 2, when the game had a 4% xp loss. When those 4% started to mean a full week of farming mobs, I started to be much more carefully and dedicated into not dieing uselessly by staying in healers range and keep my healer alive at all costs. Obviously bad players will remain bad players, that will happen with or without penaltys. But medium players will fell more motivated to learn how to properly do things when they start deleveling instead of leveling. My point of view...




Do you know what happens in real life when you die? You guessed it, you die.
In my perfect concept of a game, death penalty would include the real chance of losing your character.
Does it seams too much for you? Diablo 2 have the Hardcore system where if u died it would be permanently, no second chances. And it still had an huge player base. But I'm not so rigid, I don't think that losing your character over death would be beneficial to a game (unless some very strict rigid conditions apply).

In final fantasy, saying I don't my "effort be taken away" finds a great solution in a death penalty system, and the solution is simply play better.



Also, thumbs up for Mugiwara. "Im tired of my hand being held" is exactly my thoughts, had enough of that in wow.

I've been playing MMOS since UO launch and experienced full loot PvP etc etc. To put it simply the mechanic does not make the game fun. In FFXI I have been in parties where I had lost entire levels which could mean a full weeks worth of work (before SE made it easy mode level up) all because one person in the group was a bad player. That wasn't fun and I don't have fond memories of it. Before you say anything about just tossing that player that was back when people were standing around for 5 hours just LFG to level so tossing some one right away for being a bad player wasn't really an option. While I have had fun in the past in games with harsh death penalties the penalties themselves in no way made the game more fun. A lot of people have also said "it makes it exciting" or "It gives me a rush" but the first thing I learned in those games was that getting "excited" or getting "a rush" often led to making mistakes. So the first step to becoming a better player was not feelling that way. Instead I enjoy the feeling of accomplishment to which the threat of losing a level or gear had no effect on.

[Renshi]

Heya!

The Death system right now really needs something that tells the players to be scared of death.
By far, this is the best idea I've ever seen in every thread in this forum. I also approve the tweak of Clawfury by not letting the player to earn any SP until weakness is done.
That could help the players to form better their tactics on monster killing instead of zombiekill things.

What about the durability? Do you think it has to be lowered too by a certain percentage?
As for myself, I'm neither cold or hot about that, but the main concept would be: Die fast, Repair fast.

See ya!

[Naylia]

One minor issue with the OPs idea - Buy back possibly needs some work:
1) Buy back with Gil - Gil is worthless for "hard core" players - while this would create a gold sink in the economy it wouldn't really deter sloppy behavior, or create a feeling of danger - but it may do so for casual players that don't have quite a large bankroll
2) Buy back with Anima - Anima is near worthless for "casual" players - my anima regenerates faster than I know how to use it, hence it would have the same issue for a different player base.

You could allow either option - but that decreases the fear of death since it's easier(less costly) to pay off if you get to choose the method of payment. And if you choose one over the other then you are definitely making a decision about which player type you exact the penalty on more harshly.

I'm not sure this approach is sufficient to really create the "I'm sitting on edge of my seat" type of experience.


The most tense time I have had in this game was trying to sneak through Mor Dhona to reach a camp when I was far from an aetheryte. Dying was painful, because it meant redoing 15 minutes of carefully avoided aggro.

My problem is that I rarely get to play like this. Leves and quests are within a stone's throw of a camp or aetheryte and if anything, all the leves are set up so that you run back and forth right next to camp. None of them have you adventure way out into danger. I'd love to have something where if I died and my group couldn't raise me, it'd put me so far back that it would be very difficult for me to get back to the group, or the group might have to make a concerted effort to come and regroup.

I think any death penalty needs to be designed & coupled with an upping in difficulty of content across the board. It makes me sad that only once in 6 months have I been sitting on pins and needles praying not to die.

[deekapowski]

Personally I think not gaining xp during weakness is a decent idea. It never sets you back but still reminds you that there is something to lose...

[Mugiwara]

Im tired of my hand being held. People who want an easy game, plz go play something else. You are bleeding the ff fanbase dry, when you get bored of this game because it offers no sense of urgency or accomplishment, i guess you will go find some other game to bitch to developers about having it dumbed down for the newby people who want a cake walk to the max rank/level... seriously.

[Reika]

Are you saying our characters should be deleted if we die? No one would bother with this game if it was like that. Diablo 2, Hardcore mode was an option, thats why it still had a player base. if it were the only option, There would be a tiny handful of people that would bother with it.

[Dragonhand]

Your grades at English or wtv native language you use must be realy low cus I clearly didn't said such a thing, so your interpretation skills are a bit low.

"I don't think that losing your character over death would be beneficial to a game (unless some very strict rigid conditions apply)." could I be more clear then these?

I'll rephrase it... no need to be a bad person I guess... I don't think losing your character would benefit final fantasy, it would only benefit a game where the proper conditions were assembled.

if it were the only option, There would be a tiny handful of people that would bother with it.

Yah thats why no one played star wars galaxies, oh wait... ppl did played it... but yah at the end player base fallen to 10k and it was shuted down :P Still it sold 1 million copy's. In any case I've never considered losing a character as a viable option to final fantasy, less as the only option.

I've already stated that a 4% xp loss both physical and rank would be acceptable.

[Dragonhand]

"WoW got to be as popular as it did because a braindead chimpanzee drunk on a case of beer could play the game"

By far, the best wow definition I've ever saw ahahahaha lawl.

I agree with you Richard in the point that there are many ways to make the game hard in a healthy way. Still i believe the fear of death should exist and players should be sort of afraid of dieing. I'm always hopen to new systems unless they are hand holding craps.

[damican]

The current system is fine. Why on earth would it make sense to punish players while playing the game? This isn't 1998 anymore. Death penalties in general are dumb. You still lose time when you die, if you're in a party it can cause a wipe which leads to more lost time. Making the even more extreme is just a punishment in a video game. It makes no sense. I guess the masochistic gamers might like it a bit, but honestly EQ and Darkfall are there for you. I could go into a large rant over people with jobs/little time/etc but it's been done to death. Death penalties are dumb and just another time sink and a bad one at that.

edit: The person above me hit the nail on the head.