Leveling is way to fast...

[Kagato]

Level caps~

Oh yeah. I never thought about that before, being an FFXI player and all. It never once occurred to me.

Look, they tried that approach in FFXI. It caused a lot of grief and rage among the player base. That's why they lifted the level cap for numerous events, including most of CoP.

I'm not saying I DON'T want mid-level content. I do, actually. I'm just saying that asking for such a thing in the game's current state is just pointless. Everyone engaging in anything mid-level is just going to get high-level help and watch the event get finished for them, all for a weapon or armor they'll end up replacing in 3-5 levels anyway which, in the game's current format, would take a day to achieve.

The only way to make the spoils more useful would be to extend the grind time to much longer levels, and quite honestly, as shown in the player poll given by the devs, is not something the general population of gamers want. Players don't mind the grind we have and are not asking for anything faster. We just don't want it to be any slower because THIS game is focusing more on content than grinds.

So, what sort of spoils would you want to receive at mid-level for there to be mid-level-only events dedicated to it? Just keep in mind that the spoils would need to be balanced and you also need to keep in mind that mid-levels go by fairly quickly, even through solo leves. The only thing I can think of is some sort of consumable so it would keep people coming back. If there really was some sort of super weapon or armor for mid-levels, everyone would want to get their hands on it. Guess what that does? Kills the mid-level armor/weapon economy. No matter how you slice it, it's just not going to work the way some players hope it will. That's why endgame is more important than the grind. After all, a majority of storyline missions can be soloed.

[Jocko]

I'm just saying that asking for such a thing in the game's current state is just pointless. Everyone engaging in anything mid-level is just going to get high-level help and watch the event get finished for them, all for a weapon or armor they'll end up replacing in 3-5 levels anyway which, in the game's current format, would take a day to achieve.

Oh, I agree, and that's a fundamental balance problem with the current game that I believe needs to be fixed. In 2.0, when there will hopefully be maps worth exploring and content worth doing, having everyone steamroll it would be a shame. Caps would prevent that, and give the (Again, hopefully) influx of new players a large pool of others to play with at their level. Also, if the leveling process took longer, mid game and low level gear would have a much healthier place in the economy

The only way to make the spoils more useful would be to extend the grind time to much longer levels, and quite honestly, as shown in the player poll given by the devs, is not something the general population of gamers want. Players don't mind the grind we have and are not asking for anything faster. We just don't want it to be any slower because THIS game is focusing more on content than grinds.

Tell me, what's the difference between doing content at level 30 and content at level 50? No one is asking for a grind and nothing more, we want content evenly balanced throughout the game, providing a sense of progression and pacing that the game currently lacks. If we had what we currently have (And a bit more, of course), but divided up between levels, what's the issue? You either grind to 50 and do the raids, or you play at a more even pace, and given new content every 10 levels or so, and hopefully the equipment gained from that content would be worth having/necessary to allowing you to progress to higher levels. Pacing like this would give the developers an easy way to introduce new areas and concepts to the players in a steady and balanced manner

So, what sort of spoils would you want to receive at mid-level for there to be mid-level-only events dedicated to it?

Again, if the leveling process took longer (Not just by grinding, but also difficult to complete and capped content), gear from mid game would be worth so much more. Also, I'm all for the XI model of having midgame gear still usable during end game, or getting equipment that you'll use with your class for the rest of the game, like Summoner's carbuncle mitts. If these were obtained from exciting and unique content, then no one would have a problem with a longer level time, because we would be getting what we have now, but paced evenly and not all lumped in at the end

[Kagato]

Tell me, what's the difference between doing content at level 30 and content at level 50?

Whatever spoils you get from a level 30 event will just be replaced in 5-10 levels. Also, without a level cap, anyone can get high-level help, making the event easier. If the event is easier due to this, then more people will get the spoils. If more people have the spoils, then the market for anything level 30-40 will become a dead zone.

It's not about the event itself. It's about the reason to do the event.

Now, something I would be fully behind is a level-capped version of storyline missions without any reward other than proceeding further in the main story (as well as exp/gil) and, of course, have rewards given at the end of the storyline. This is what FFXI's CoP did and it worked out well for a while. It caused problems only due to the fact that anyone who wanted to participate needed to buy brand new gear just to participate, which was good for the economy for that level range, but a hassle overall.

I'm starting to understand your side a little more now that I've actually discussed it. However, that still doesn't mean I support a slower grind. So therefore, I am 100% for more mid-level content as long as it is balanced, there's a reason to do it and that it doesn't hurt the economy. None of this should have any impact on leveling speed. Just attention to questlines.

So my original point sticks: Leveling speed is perfectly fine as it is.

[KoujiGeki]

well if they added the Rings from CoP that were level 30 that were still good even when the cap was raised to 90 not many rings had plus 5 store tp and 5 str and dex on them.

Or just make low level gear like it that scales higher as you level exactly like the CoP rings.

[Jocko]

Whatever spoils you get from a level 30 event will just be replaced in 5-10 levels. Also, without a level cap, anyone can get high-level help, making the event easier. If the event is easier due to this, then more people will get the spoils. If more people have the spoils, then the market for anything level 30-40 will become a dead zone.

And again, if those 5 to 10 levels take time, it's still worth doing. Also, as I said, if the rewards would include, say, accessories that are useful even for capped characters (Such as things that offer bonuses to skills or are useful in certain end game content) then that content becomes relevant even for characters at endgame. Alternatively, the rewards don't have to be gear at all, instead something that provides a permanent utility to a character (Example, completing a dungeon would be required to activated an atheryte camp, giving the player faster travel as they complete content, or, say, being how you acquire a chocobo pass etc)

And still, I suggest a cap for mid game content regardless

[Skies]

This gives me an idea...
What if there existed an MMO where 'levels' meant abilities, and exclusively abilities? You don't have a difference in stats aside from support abilities learned and gear equipped, but there is no such thing as a 'class level' or something but there's say, 'AP costs' to learn abilities all around and AP is what you earn from fighting monsters.
It's not about wether you're level 20 or 75, but more about which abilities you've learned.

Okay, that was just a thought exercise

[Kagato]

This gives me an idea...
What if there existed an MMO where 'levels' meant abilities, and exclusively abilities? You don't have a difference in stats aside from support abilities learned and gear equipped, but there is no such thing as a 'class level' or something but there's say, 'AP costs' to learn abilities all around and AP is what you earn from fighting monsters.
It's not about wether you're level 20 or 75, but more about which abilities you've learned.

Okay, that was just a thought exercise

The Secret World

[Dragon]

This gives me an idea...
What if there existed an MMO where 'levels' meant abilities, and exclusively abilities? You don't have a difference in stats aside from support abilities learned and gear equipped, but there is no such thing as a 'class level' or something but there's say, 'AP costs' to learn abilities all around and AP is what you earn from fighting monsters.
It's not about wether you're level 20 or 75, but more about which abilities you've learned.

Okay, that was just a thought exercise

We'll see whether that works or not soon enough, it's called The Secret World.

[Krausus]

The Secret World

Darkfall online and Mortal online as well all of which are heavy heavy PvP sandbox MMOs

[Punainen]

Leveling is not too fast...