Patch 7.5 Discussion Thread

[MayuAmakura]

Also do people realize that premades aren't just 4 people? You know that discords exist? And that many many people know themselves there? So when they all queue together, there is a very very big chance that everyone will end up on the same team or at least in the same game which creates discord calls with 8+ people or "i'm on enemy team so i'll either play funny and won't kill people I know or just hunt them down". This thing is even bigger than you think. There is a reason why some strange things occur like your entire team being white mages or 10 gnb, all because on discords they say: "alright, lets do all whm challenge" and other crap that you see.

[Divinemights]

Also do people realize that premades aren't just 4 people? You know that discords exist? And that many many people know themselves there? So when they all queue together, there is a very very big chance that everyone will end up on the same team or at least in the same game which creates discord calls with 8+ people or "i'm on enemy team so i'll either play funny and won't kill people I know or just hunt them down". This thing is even bigger than you think. There is a reason why some strange things occur like your entire team being white mages or 10 gnb, all because on discords they say: "alright, lets do all whm challenge" and other crap that you see.

Yes, I understand you dislike the new BH changes.
I’m not a fan either, but I think you’re crossing into conspiracy territory here.
What exactly would people even gain from win-trading Frontline?
At most, Q-syncing just groups PvP veterans into the same matches and reduces the chance of getting paired with random PvE roulettes.

I’m in a PvP Discord that regularly does Q-syncs, and I’ve never personally participated, but from what I’ve seen it’s mostly about playing with familiar players, not some secret win-trading operation.
And if what you’re claiming were actually true, how do you explain players like me maintaining around a 39% first-place rate while solo queueing?
One of my characters is even sitting at 45%.

People Q-sync Frontline mainly because they don’t want to deal with toxic PvE rouletters who ignore callouts, argue nonstop, AFK, or treat PvP like loweffort tome farming instead of actually trying to win.
Most veteran PvP players queue together because match quality is significantly better when you’re grouped with people who understand objectives, positioning, target priority, and basic coordination.
That’s not “win trading”
It’s just players trying to avoid frustrating matches with teammates who clearly don’t care about PvP.

[ThreeBeastSmile]

Yes, I understand you dislike the new BH changes.
I’m not a fan either, but I think you’re crossing into conspiracy territory here.
What exactly would people even gain from win-trading Frontline?

That's funny. As mildly hyperbolic as the delivery was in their reply, they never mentioned win-trading.

But there are absolutely grudge hits organized out there. No, I don't mean like "this person is a persistent threat to the operation", it's blatantly an effort to seek that person out (or sometimes on the ally side, non-assisting despite their calibre). They may or may not even care about the outcome of the match. You won't recognize it happening much unless you're the target or part of it. Helps having eyes in those places you'd not be ordinarily permitted into. It's just pettiness getting out of hand, but it can be very persistent. It's not a friendly rivalry, they may have never even spoken to the target directly.

It's not really impacting the grand scheme of things a whole lot though of course, but that does exist. Weird way to spend your day in this game's PvP tbh.

Anyroad it's whatever and not really relevant to this topic atm.

[Scintilla]

Also do people realize that premades aren't just 4 people? You know that discords exist?

And I have already said exactly the same as Divinemights, but you seem determined not to listen and to continue your conspiracy theories.

1. Yes, Q-Syncs exist

2. No, there isn't a 'very, very big chance' that they all end up on the same team; in the same game, yes (that's kind of the point?)

3. All Q-Syncers will be relatively evenly spread across the three alliances (as much as rng allows). They hold no loyalty or reason to lose to any single team: they will have friends on blue, friends on red, and friends with them on yellow. There is no reason to choose to 'help' any single one of those teams beyond their own.
They play to win for themselves and the other regulars that rng placed them with.

4. You think they won't kill the people they know?
If anything, they'll focus those players more, not just because of friendly rivalry and competitiveness, but because those players are more likely to be the troublesome ones that stand in the way of their winning - not some random BRD who's sitting outside respawn doing nothing while waiting for a B-Rank node to activate...

5. While most Q-Syncs are just choose whatever class you want, yes, sometimes they may do a one-off game in which they encourage each other to choose only one class or a particular role (e.g. all BRD, all tanks etc.). This is optional, even amongst the regulars, and isn't forced upon casuals queuing.
If people choose to do it, that's their choice. They have just as much right to choose the class they wish to play as the many, many casuals who elect to completely fill the alliance with ranged/caster classes because they don't want to get close to the frontline.

[Scintilla]

That's funny. As mildly hyperbolic as the delivery was in their reply, they never mentioned win-trading.

But there are absolutely grudge hits organized out there. No, I don't mean like "this person is a persistent threat to the operation", it's blatantly an effort to seek that person out (or sometimes on the ally side, non-assisting despite their calibre). They may or may not even care about the outcome of the match. You won't recognize it happening much unless you're the target or part of it. Helps having eyes in those places you'd not be ordinarily permitted into. It's just pettiness getting out of hand, but it can be very persistent. It's not a friendly rivalry, they may have never even spoken to the target directly.

It's not really impacting the grand scheme of things a whole lot though of course, but that does exist. Weird way to spend your day in this game's PvP tbh.

Anyroad it's whatever and not really relevant to this topic atm.

If I'm honest, I see this a lot more from casuals than regulars.

Not to say that there isn't friction or grudges held by a few within PvP communities - having a rather competitive mindset can lead to tensions between individuals who are being a particular nuisance to each other. It's initially through the desire to win rather than any ill-intent, but when you have just been MNK LBed for the 7th time by the same player because you're posing such a threat, a few can take it personally rather than see it for the true reason it was done

However, I have totally lost count of the number of times I've seen this amongst casual teams, with varying logic behind it. Ranging from those who will intentionally throw the game because of defeatism ("just let them win and end it faster") to those who just get a grudge against a team because that team is doing very well, so they resort to intentionally throwing the game to ensure they don't win ("I don't care who wins as long as it's not yellow").

Both are bad, there's no denying. The main difference, I suppose, would be that the first is more a targeted focus on a single player with whom they've developed a grudge against. The second is a grudge against an entire team. Although both are wrong, the latter definitely has a far greater impact on the outcome of the game and is seen far, far more than the former.


And, going back to the first point, I presume the reference of win-trading was the claim that regular PvPers will queue together and, if placed apart, will intentionally hinder a match ("I'm on the enemy team so I'll play funny") purely to help their friends on the other team to win. A totally fictional scenario, but still...

[aereniil]

To be honest, as a casual PvP enjoyer, I kinda like the fact that rating isn't gettting down anymore. Of course, when you face much better players, it can quickly get unplayable. But from the past games, I've seen a clear change in behavior and team play in Frontline. Less afking on nodes, and more initiatives (both individually and in groups). And so far, I've noticed it on at least 3 maps (Onsal, Secure, Worqor). I myself feel like this change alone motivates me to fight in front in the middle of more than 2 enemies more often as a RDM, even though this was not my play style until now. I feel like not being afraid to lose (especially in chains) half of my progression in each fight freed my mind, and let me think more of fighting more aggressively but with idea of retreating wisely (thanks Displacement) when I sense too much threat.

[VictorSpoils]

Too many honest folks ITT

[Sunhwapark]

It’s just players trying to avoid frustrating matches with teammates who clearly don’t care about PvP.

Honestly valid reasons.

I'm not in any of those groups but the environment is really fun when you end up in one of those kinds of games compared to the random queues where it's either an "ok" match or you have alliance A and C busy arguing among themselves about why the team is in last place while also playing as passively as possible. I'm not even a good player myself, but I like the environment where people are fighting for victory or even just hungry for a good skirmish, and none of this parking 50 yalms behind a node spawn and rolling out a red carpet for the enemy to capture it and then going "What happened guys ??"