Evolved Skills Feedback

[Awkward]

I think some people are so desperate for something new and fresh over the 2 minute meta they are willing to cut down everything to get to it.

I don't think this is the right approach. Like the healer identity they want for me as a Whitemage is to "Just heal" fair enough, but what am I healing? If the fights design doesn't change what am I healing and to that extent why remove things like Assize, Cure 3 or Asylum?

That has less to do with rotation ease as it is I use certain spells to help keep people alive and I'm getting an arm surgically removed I'll still be able to play just fine with my arm cut off but I must ask... why did you cut off my arm?

We don't really know what it's going to be like, but if they didn't make any changes we would just keep getting more of the same homogeneous, scripted and rigid sequences which was clearly falling out of favor with the majority of the player base.

[WaxSw]

We don't really know what it's going to be like, but if they didn't make any changes we would just keep getting more of the same homogeneous, scripted and rigid sequences which was clearly falling out of favor with the majority of the player base.

I mean what they have shown to Whm is mostly the same but with more glarespam and lower healing complexity, the holy sanctity is basically afflatus missery lite, glare is the same but somehow more braindead and prevalent and the job seems to be seriously lacking in GCD heals and cooldowns. Same logic kind be applied (for a lesser degree) to the remaining of the showcased Evolved kits, they seem to be the same as DT but with the general rotation watered down and with 1 or 2 neat tricks.

Take DRG for another example, its rotation seem to be 3 positionals every 30s with the weave of nastrond and geirskogul while using 1-2 jumps to ignore the positional requirements and build towards stardiver to have a 60s burst of 3 positionals, the jumps, stardiver and its combo and sky high and its combo. By their own the rotation is quite simple and the points of interest come from potential applications of sky high and the positionals and due to the jumps it seems there will only be a total of 3 positionals that cannot be ignored per minute so not much. Also the fact that the 2 dps shown have a 60s cycle and a 20s job resource cycle (20s per song in bard, 20s per jump in drg) kinda makes me feel there may remain some degree of homogenization

I want change as much as the next guy but we must make sure that the thing they are changing jobs into is actually good and adresses common feedback like the lack of skill ceiling and homogenization and not immediatly associate "new" with "good"

[Potchi]

It’s amazing how many people in here we have that have insider knowledge and seem to know EXACTLY what each job is getting. Chill out everyone. Let’s see what they have in store before overreacting and jumping to exaggerated conclusions. This is a phenomenal change and I hope SE doesn't let the people whining about their own make believe scenarios keep them from continuing forward on this path. This is the change this game NEEDS.

If you don't like the evolved version of your job, either use the reborn version, or find a new job you enjoy. There will hopefully be plenty of variety and surely there will be something in the mix that you enjoy.

[Kirutsuki]

People are already crying about PLD being "designated main tank" because it has a parry-damage mechanic, they barely changed anything and it's already too much.

People either don't get it that it's specific to evolved mode. So DRK, WAR and GNB can still be main tank as long as PAL disabled evolved mode before entering battle. Or you dont allow new tank job join the party that forces the situation.
But meh, my main take away is that it's actually good to have a separation for MT and OT because I dislike the aspect of trying to be MT in duty roulette, often enough another tank also wants to MT and it's just a annoying.
For me it just clears up the situation and alleviates the need to ask whos MT and who's OT.

[TKMXIV]

I edited my past post because I wasn't sure if I missed Dia or maybe they just didn't have it on the hot bar because there wasn't a change on it.
However, I'm back to being concerned again because after watching the video again I noticed Assize was missing along with Dia.

I've been wanting Aero 3 back after it was taken by Shadowbringers. I just never voiced it much on the forum. However, if Dia and Assize are gone as well, I'm going to be really disappointed.
When people have said Healers needed combos. My view has always been 1, 2, 3 is the same as 1, 1, 1. I would much rather have more individual attacks I can mix in.

My idea attacks for WHM would be. Stone/Glare, Aero/Dia, Holy, Aero 3, Assize, Afflatus Misery, Glare 4(Renamed to Quake with spell effects that are earth themed.) and finally one more big attack spell.
An attack with a bit of a long cooldown that hits hard and has a water theme. Something with torrent in the name. I played with the idea of it being Single target at first and as you heal with Cures and Medicas it slowly gets stronger and gains splash damage.
(Holy Sanctuary seems to be like that idea I had for torrent.)

To make room I had the idea of fusing Medica with Medica 2&3 as well as fusing Devine Benison with Aqualveil and making Cure upgrade into Cure 2. (And that is what Evolved has done and I'm hyped about that.)
That would free up two hot bar slots for Aero 3 and the unnamed water themed attack.

I think WHM healing kit was just about perfect for a basic to understand healer. The problem came from lacking a bit more damage skills to have fun with. So, if they are stripping more attacks from the job that sucks.
8 attacks total for a 100 level WHM. Spam single target and dot, Spam Aoe and Dot, the multitooled Assize (Heals and deals damage.), the resource attacks Misery, Glare 4 and finally a spell that gets stronger based on healing done.

With the changes for 8.0 what is AST going to end up looking like?

[Aidorouge]

The further simplifying of jobs would suggest they're going to go even harder on making fights faster and more difficult, to the point they actually gave jobs parry and roll skills now...

I guess Dawntrail was only the beginning, they really DO NOT want casuals playing this game anymore as they slowly turn it into some kind of Souls-like. Might as well have called it "Eldencold" instead.

[iiOmarSP]

I want change as much as the next guy but we must make sure that the thing they are changing jobs into is actually good and adresses common feedback like the lack of skill ceiling and homogenization and not immediatly associate "new" with "good"

That's pretty much what it is, I don't want the new gameplay to just be a "SMN but its a different skin" which is why providing them with feedback is NEEDED to tell them "Hey, this thing is not okay! Please change it into something else or fix it to make it slightly better"

It’s amazing how many people in here we have that have insider knowledge and seem to know EXACTLY what each job is getting. Chill out everyone. Let’s see what they have in store before overreacting and jumping to exaggerated conclusions. This is a phenomenal change and I hope SE doesn't let the people whining about their own make believe scenarios keep them from continuing forward on this path. This is the change this game NEEDS.

On the flipside, it's just as amazing that people are accepting it at face value Because it's not the 2m, no problems or anything, just instantly good because its not what we had for 3 expansions in a row.
Just like how we don't know how will Evolved will exactly have, so are the people in support of it can't say stuff like "If you don't like evolved job, play something else or use reborn" because they too, don't know how it will play out, and the best we can do is to just address any issues we have based on footage.

All of us want change, this tiresome cycle needed to go at some point, and I'm glad it FINALLY did, but the direction of said change IS what a bunch of people don't like, and therefore they want to provide feedback to the devs as to WHY said change need adjustments or fixes.

[Supersnow845]

It’s amazing how many people in here we have that have insider knowledge and seem to know EXACTLY what each job is getting. Chill out everyone. Let’s see what they have in store before overreacting and jumping to exaggerated conclusions. This is a phenomenal change and I hope SE doesn't let the people whining about their own make believe scenarios keep them from continuing forward on this path. This is the change this game NEEDS.

If you don't like the evolved version of your job, either use the reborn version, or find a new job you enjoy. There will hopefully be plenty of variety and surely there will be something in the mix that you enjoy.

People need to learn that when you present something a certain way that people are going to springboard off it.

For example they chose to show off WHM and WHM ONLY. If somehow all the other healers are paradigms of complexity and 11/10 design then it’s square job to show off a good healer; not show off WHM and then go “wait and see for the rest”

Square had full control over what they show, it’s not the players job to default giving them the benefit of the doubt when they choose what they show

[Rudje]

Popping in again since a healer friend broke down hir problems with the WHM design on discord and I want this on a place the devs can read it. It's a lot and going to be multiple posts and I'm not asking hir to rewrite it for forums because the reason ze's avoiding the forums is this place is a toxic wasteland, but it is good analysis of the problems with healer.

Me and my cohealer were extremely unimpressed
Half my static were like "but it's in development it could change" and I was like. I'm not looking at the specifics. Takes your hand. Did you listen to the words they were saying. Those words are the design philosophy. They do not understand healing
My cohealer said "well if they want fewer people to play healer they've managed it" lmfao

So the problem they're trying to solve here with this is the fact that people say "don't heal it's a dps loss", which isn't actually a problem
it's what new people interpret as the problem
But it's not the problem
The problem is that people heal too much when it's not needed, and don't understand when and where to apply the tools they have to the problems they're faced with
saying "it's ok cure2 charges blood lily now" does nothing to fix that problem, if anything it makes it WORSE
And given there's no mp regen tools and healing gcd spells sure were more expensive in the early build this will not end well

Basically the entire healer section smacked of "we listened to people who got bullied in pf about their healing to fix the job" which isn't. Isn't how you fix the job
to be fair any gcd heal charged the gauge
So that's whatever to me
at least they said any gcd heal would charge it, they didn't show that
But they're not fixing a problem that actually exists which to me says they don't have anyone who plays healer on the team for this
(the sole fact that he showed it off with cure2 was a red flag to me if I'm honest lmfao)

[Rudje]

Continued healer-friend quotes.

And I want to examine the tools I use in ultimate because that's the only place healing is actually, if we're honest with ourselves, actually hard
Like outside of a prog scenario anyway
w1 Tyrant was like getting kicked in the head repeatedly for healing but it's chill outside of that
I'm also, while kind of annoyed they've reflavoured blood lily into Healslut Reward, relying on the skill glamours to restore my former glory in this regard, functionally it's the same except you don't even need to make sure the lily goes in 2mins any more
I'm just a bit annoyed because they didn't actually discuss any of the healing tools
Like I saw that plenary and wings and bell were there but asylum and assize weren't, and lucid wasn't, and raise was still 2400mp, so even if you cut the mp costs in half the damage gcds are cheaper than gcd healing AND what happens if you die? What's going on with mp? talk to me about things people who play these jobs think about
I felt like they understood what they were showing off with the dps and went through all of the available stuff, they did the same for tank they showed everything on the bar even if it's all still in development
but half the healer skills just went unpressed

[other player] it felt very "healer as if it were designed by people who don't play healers"

[healer friend] RIGHT
It was so obvious
They were trying to make it playable for people new to the job but failing up is how you play healer if we're honest XD
It's what I did
My cohealer is very concerned about what shield healers will look like
I'm relying on ast to save me, although I feel like I've lost a fair bit of skill expression if I'm no longer doing strategic lightspeeds for movement
I'm really hoping thye can do something fun with the cards if they just divorce them entirely from dps
Like make it a card gacha again and let me do things like spread bole
Because if nothing boosts damage then I'm not punished for using other effects! Very exciting!
But unfortunately they said that Mr Prime did all the evolved jobs and if I'm honest I don't actually like what he's doing very much
well no tht's not true the dps looks fun
But the support... eeeeeeh