Evolved Skills Feedback

[Rudje]

First off, the simplest one:

Skills need to be splittable. Both for accessibility reasons (I use the locations of skills to help me remember positionals, not having this is why viper is nearly unplayable in pve for me even with workarounds) and to prevent wipe-causing misclicks (if the target isn't swapped when i try to 'voke after protecting a healer, if they're the last one up I've just killed everyone with a misclicked shirk).

Second:

Unnecessary/harmful consolidation of skills. There's generally a lot of consolidations that indicate a lack of familiarity with the actual situations people encounter in the game, like shirk/provoke and low blow/interject (the latter of which are not related concepts and do radically different things and in deep dungeons often need to be used in very rapid succession), and it feels particularly bad as a tank main to see my main role designed apparently by people who do not main a tank.

Third:

Removal of skill expression sucks. It just does. There's no way to avoid optimization, because that is not how games that use math function. Needlessly removing the need to make choices about when to use something sucks, and it's disproportionately impacted support players here in a negative way. An example is things like removing the ability to do something like 1212 clemency to save a run, but also if I eat dirt and I know I'm going to, slamming a buff to help my party just feels better than eating dirt and having to suck it up.

I haven't been able to heal much due to framerate problems, so I will leave healer commentary for healer mains, but I have seen complaints from a healer main so I know it's not just tanks. I'm also struggling to remember other details that I may have overlooked, so i welcome feedback there.

[StriderShinryu]

I actually like the way the Evolved jobs are looking so far but I do agree that consolidating buttons and combos should still be a players choice (even if the consolidated version is presented as the default).

[WaxSw]

I'll repeat what I said in other thread but to sum up, I'm not sold and I dont think this approach and evolved jobs doing more damage can be healthy in a game with scripted encounters.

It seems "evolved" may as well be called "basic" with the lack of management and while it has some cool actions there seems, so far, to be a rather shallow experience. I also don't see them addresing common complaints like the lack of skill expression.

Obviously we are in a "wait and see" situation since they haven't shown much but if I were to leave my feedback it would be "please, you are prunning too much and it seems to not be for the better" and "keep the cast times on healers and fix the 1 button spam problem"

[Niwurr]

Not gonna lie, for my main, which is Bard. I actually really love the shape the evolved set is looking. Of course I'll really have to get used to not having my dots or my barrage right out of the gate, but having the freedom to rotate songs situationally is precisely what I needed, and that little personal lb looked so tasty as a reward.

I will admit the hurt/harm depending on who you're targeting is also definitely gonna bite me in the ass. I already mistarget a bunch by mistake so it'll be a ride to get used to.
The added layer of Left/Right/Hind positionals is gonna be tough for sure as well, but I think it's part of the challenge. I'm cautiously optimistic.

The Support Tank stuff they mentioned is something that I'm curious/a little worried about. How deep are they gonna delve into Sentinel & Saboteur/Synergist typing? Like for viability reasons it couldn't be too much right? but they would be distinct enough to liken them to Shield and Pure healers?

Either way I'm gonna be so grateful for the fact both Reborn and Evolved are gonna be viable because I don't think I have the willpower to relearn everything from scratch entirely.

[Teno]

I'll repeat what I said in other thread but to sum up, I'm not sold and I dont think this approach and evolved jobs doing more damage can be healthy in a game with scripted encounters.

It seems "evolved" may as well be called "basic" with the lack of management and while it has some cool actions there seems, so far, to be a rather shallow experience. I also don't see them addresing common complaints like the lack of skill expression.

Obviously we are in a "wait and see" situation since they haven't shown much but if I were to leave my feedback it would be "please, you are prunning too much and it seems to not be for the better" and "keep the cast times on healers and fix the 1 button spam problem"

They've laid out exactly how they consolidated useless things like 123 combos into 1 button and added skill expression where it mattered like with the parry, dashes and whatnot. They essentially ported pvp over to pve and this is a great demonstration of how less things = more meaning. Now healers remain wait and see because the role is what needed the most work.

[caffe_macchiato]

Many of the fair and good-faith criticisms that people have been making for years are finally being listened to. We’ve been shouted down and called FFXIV haters for years. You all said devs didn’t read these forums, that we’ll never be listened to, and FFXIV will always remain the same and if we didn’t like it, we should leave. All of that is over. FFXIV isn’t going back to AFKwalker and Yawnfail. FFXIV is now about the midcore, average-joe gameplay experience being better. Every piece of content will be positively impacted with evolved mode. Every aspect of playing the game has a chance to be more fun. (Yes, playing the game, not playing other games.) Hopefully from now on people will have more tolerance towards those with opinions.

[WaxSw]

They've laid out exactly how they consolidated useless things like 123 combos into 1 button and added skill expression where it mattered like with the parry, dashes and whatnot. They essentially ported pvp over to pve and this is a great demonstration of how less things = more meaning. Now healers remain wait and see because the role is what needed the most work.

I'm gonna be honest, in a fight where you know exactly when the damage is coming, timing a parry from a short colldown that you gain every 20s (it seemed like that) is not the pinnacle of skill expression, or at the very least, way lower than what the same job used to have with the manipulation of the multiple cooldowns it lost.

The dash thing is not skill expression when in the case of drg its pretty clear is a just a standard part of the rotation and in the case of pld seems niche at best and even worse when we see how the rotation of those two jobs seem to have devolved into "press glowy button"

In the end is all especulation, this is a debug version that is still being worked on but so far it seems like they applied pvp design logic to pve encounters without considering that a short simpler and more reactive rotation is not that well suited for a long scripted encounter

[OMEGAlomania]

I will personally reserve my own judgement until after I've played with it, but I am definately concerned of an "overcasualisation".
Some of the hotbars in that demo were frighteningly empty. The thought doesn't appeal for any of my mains as of fitst impression that's for sure.

I understand completely that having to go back and run non-levelcap content and instantly loosing a bunch of your skills is not at all a perfect way of handling things. But surely there has to be a way that isn't making your current Job practically gameplay complete at level 50. What does someone have to look forward to at level 110 from that point over some varient actions that will activate when I keep pressing the same button and passives?

The people I really want to hear from are those who (actually) run ultimates and the like. I always enjoy watching them because I know that they've:
!) Mastered their rotations and can keep them going when needed under a high pressure situation.
2) Mastered mechanics and the individual fight with a group.
I will be very interested how many of the high end people engage with Evolved, and how many of them continue playing long term after it drops.

[Rudje]

understand completely that having to go back and run non-levelcap content and instantly loosing a bunch of your skills is not at all a perfect way of handling things. But surely there has to be a way that isn't making your current Job practically gameplay complete at level 50.

I will say that's one thing I actually liked; I don't need new buttons to shake things up for novelty (and actually find random buttons added for the sake of New irritating) and I find having my kit completely gutted because I got sent to the Crystal Tower mines really annoying, especially with jobs where the core gimmick comes online tens of levels later (like RPR or DRK, my mains).

[Gullis]

Dps and tank changes seems maybe more ok, But Idk what they did to whm. ngl it looks pretty depressing, but ill give it a shot. curious what they will do to scholar

I can also see people kicking and questioning people for not using the "correct best dps version of the job" in PF, so that will make for fun drama potentially