Lets have class only abilities and spells

[Jinko]

Classes are for people who don't like being told how to play. Jobs are for people who want a predefined role. You don't alienate one group to satisfy another. That only leads to a smaller target audience.

You mean like all the other countless MMO's out there that alienate people based on a forced role ?

The only reason they would alienate people now is because nobody likes change, as I said previously the reason why Yoshi didn't remove classes from day one was probably due to backslash from the community.

It's a known fact that FF fans don't take change very well.

[Kiote]

You mean like all the other countless MMO's out there that alienate people based on a forced role?

That is exactly right. There is a large number of Gamer's who do not play MMO's because they cannot play the way they want to. MMO's have always been overly restrictive. FFXI was a hit because you could play every way without starting over. The current class system build on that and draws in a larger Fan Base. This is especially true of the Final Fantasy fan base who has grown used to being able to develop character in any direction they want.

Final Fantasy has not been a game with forced Roles for a very long time.

[Jinko]

That is exactly right. There is a large number of Gamer's who do not play MMO's because they cannot play the way they want to.

I think you will find the main reason for most gamers not playing MMO's is down to the fact that they don't like the thought of a subscription.

It has very little to do with being restricted to a specific role, almost ever game out there forces you into some kind of role.

[Kiote]

I think you will find the main reason for most gamers not playing MMO's is down to the fact that they don't like the thought of a subscription.

Most gamers can easily rationalize a subscription. That is why Xbox Live is so popular.

MMOs have long been the Genre of Reclusive Elitests who think they know better than everyone else and only socialize in game with people of the same mind set. Predefined roles only reinforces this kind of attitude. If you want to expand the player base, you have to open up the game play and make it adaptable to any persons chosen play style.

This is especially true for Casual Solo players. More than anything, they look for a way to do thing their way in their own time. Forcing them do things one specific way will only make them walk away.

[Firon]

That is exactly right. There is a large number of Gamer's who do not play MMO's because they cannot play the way they want to. MMO's have always been overly restrictive. FFXI was a hit because you could play every way without starting over. The current class system build on that and draws in a larger Fan Base. This is especially true of the Final Fantasy fan base who has grown used to being able to develop character in any direction they want.

Final Fantasy has not been a game with forced Roles for a very long time.

I usually don't agree with this guy but you hit the nail on the head. I was think they could give classes stuff more suited for solo. Like give cnj an extra attack spell for cnj only. Give pgl a skill that helps dodge attack when alone or in a group with 4 ppl or less.

Cure
Raise
Stoneskin
Protect
Invigorate
Keen Flurry
Chameleon
Featherfoot
Forseight

I don't see how classes can let you play everything when there are only so many things you can equip without gimping yourself. I don't care if people don't like my opinion. I say get rid of classes and just keep jobs. I mean with jobs, people still equip the same 5 things according to their class.

To this when they add more classes it will be even more skills to choose from. when we have 15 classes and only like 15 skills to choose from what will you pick?

[Elexia]

It's a known fact that FF fans don't take change very well.

You mean human's don't take change well, you yourself said you played WoW so I don't see why you single out FF fans.

[Duelle]

You mean human's don't take change well, you yourself said you played WoW so I don't see why you single out FF fans.

Probably because when people riot over a change made by blizzard, it is because the change is ill-timed and makes little to no sense. People, for example, complain about the coming changes to the talent system not because they fear change, but because it's annoying to see that Cataclysm had a damn talent revamp and they're doing yet another revamp on top of that with Mists of Pandaria. On the ill-timed department, all I need to say is the reaction to Pandaren. The WoW players that asked for that race no longer play the game, because it was being asked for back during Vanilla and a good part of the Burning Crusade; that being a good 5 or 6 years ago.

By comparison, look at how people complain about the possibility of our characters being able to jump in this game. Or the fact everything is not open world so that linkshell drama and claim-bot competitions can ensue. Night and day, I tell you.

[Elexia]

By comparison, look at how people complain about the possibility of our characters being able to jump in this game. Or the fact everything is not open world so that linkshell drama and claim-bot competitions can ensue. Night and day, I tell you.

A lot of this comes from jaded ex-FFXI/people who never played FFXI making assumptions however. Claim-botting isn't due to having open world content, it's due to competition over 1% of FFXI's content, that you could go your whole career not taking part of and it has no affect on you. So no, you still can't say "just FF fans don't take change well", it's a prevalent mentality in every online game whether FPS or MMO, just in different areas.

[Duelle]

So no, you still can't say "just FF fans don't take change well", it's a prevalent mentality in every online game whether FPS or MMO, just in different areas.

Considering the reactions I've gotten over the years whenever I would mention an idea based on something seen in another game, I'll still say FF fans are less likely to want to step outside the box. Then again, I probably shouldn't be using Allakhazam's forums as a measuring stick for the FF fanbase.

Claim-botting isn't due to having open world content, it's due to competition over 1% of FFXI's content, that you could go your whole career not taking part of and it has no affect on you.

Which is instigated by the content being open world. It's plain as day.

[Hyrist]

Considering the reactions I've gotten over the years whenever I would mention an idea based on something seen in another game, I'll still say FF fans are less likely to want to step outside the box. Then again, I probably shouldn't be using Allakhazam's forums as a measuring stick for the FF fanbase.

You shouldn't be using the online games as a measuring stick for the FF fanbase, actually. The majority of FF fans are quite non-vocal about it, and so many more don't play FFXI or FFXIV than do.

Point in case, we have the camp of FF fans that enjoy the different settings, battle system changes, etc from game to game, and the camp that will always claim that their favorite FF is the best - and those camps overlap from debate to debate.

Which is instigated by the content being open world. It's plain as day.

I'm agreeing with Dulle on this. The less competition-based open world content there is, the better. At least when it comes to loot. Unique high-value drops dependent on specific open world targets with no alternatives is a very very bad mechanic. There are other, friendlier ways to compete that could be implemented.

I would keep the open world bosses perhaps as a force-pop, or have their drops be accessible by other means.