Please Provide Englsh TRANSLATION For The Japanese

[moodud]

English and japanese are neither my first language but I do know both, and I think localization is still necessary.

For example therer are times when names in japanese sounds dumb or very normal in english, some tweaking can be necessary to make it more unique and memorable. Like Ardbert in japanese version アルバート if you are going for direct translation it would be Albert, pretty normal irl name and doesn’t sounds very fantasy in my fantasy game. Same for other names, in japanese they may use very normal english transliterated words that sounds cool in japanese, but if you make direct translation to english it will sounds so normal and dumb. I think it’s important to convey the feelings too, not just meaning in many cases.

I personally think overall the english version fits the world more, as it sounds very fancy and fantasy. Japanese can be too bland sometimes. But if overdone like in ARR where we have english speaking a whole sentence while in japanese it was just a grunt, it can be bad too. I do think they improved after that tho.

[Valence]

Honestly over the last years after learning that so much has been changed or altered enough in EN compared to the original source that this has really shaken my confidence with the EN localization overall. It's still well dubbed (the VAs are good unlike the cartoony ones we had in ARR), it's still well written in good english, but just knowing that what I'm reading or listening to can potentially not be what the original would want to convey, whether or not it is the case, now constantly reminds at the back of my mind. It's like I cannot fully trust what my eyes see and I don't like it. I do care about authenticity and while I do actually support localizing enough so that something doesn't sound full jank/amateurish like in the french version for example, just the fact of not fully knowing really spoils the mood.

[Inputnamehere]

By playing other SE games such as Octopath Traveler, I can see this is kinda their style, when creating English texts for games. They don't do matching translation. They just read the general story script and create stuff in their own style. For example, if you ask 10 people to create a dialogue between a drunkard husband and a furious wife, but without any details, they would write 10 different expressions. And yes, this creates problems such as characters having different personalities in each language. Or funny skill names like "Crush Helm" which doesn't make sense if you don't play other FF games.

I won't judge this though. I've seen people supporting or against this type of "localization."

[FuturePastNow]

But if overdone like in ARR where we have english speaking a whole sentence while in japanese it was just a grunt, it can be bad too. I do think they improved after that tho.

The localization guy in the recent interview talked about that. Since Japanese can be so brief, they can try to make the English voice lines shorter to match the lip movements in cutscenes better, and since localization works directly with the writing team, sometimes they make the Japanese lines longer so it isn't just a grunt they have to translate.

That's what localization does. Anyone who wants direct translation instead of localization is a fool who should just play in Japanese if that's what they want.

[RaionKansen]

I have no real opinion in this topic whatsoever but as someone who just learns Japanese now I have an answer.

That said, localization is hard and as someone here posted already, the interview with Koji Fox is really interesting in that aspect and in the case of FFXVI actually also shows that it's a difficult thing in both directions.

I personally disagree that localization is "hard" in this context. If I, an American with like a grade school understanding of Japanese, can see how many issues there are with the changes in the EN version of the game then they are either failing to do their job or someone in charge has decided that the EN version of the game is their game; separate from the Japanese team.

It isn't necessarily me that thinks this. All people in the localization field, whose job it is to do localization, believe this.

Then things need to drastically change because they're tarnishing Japanese media. There's so many things that get changed that don't need to be changed at all. These localizers have developed an ego and it isn't helping anyone. Subs in general have only gotten worse over the last 10-15 years.

It's not just about that though. It's also about if it makes you "feel" the way that it makes people in Japan feel. Sometimes, the direct translation may not evoke the "feeling" that the writers intended to create, when translated into English. In order to evoke these "feelings", they need to reference something you are familiar with that has an emotional impact, and that requires referencing culture and historical events you are actually familiar with.

This is another ego thing. Some of the localizers feel like they're making the works better by taking liberties to "help others understand", but its been continuously filled with errors.

Most of the time the direct translation does evoke the same feelings. I think people like you and a lot of others coming to comment here don't understand what a translation is. Translations take context and sentence structure into account. Its not like you're just plugging everything into google translate and shipping it to the consumer.

The localization has time and time again missed the mark on what emotions should be conveyed when they completely change the tone of a character in some dialogues by disregarding the intention behind the specific words used in Japanese.

Emet is actually probably one of the worst offenders as much as people love him. In the Japanese he's still a bit melodramatic, but it still comes from a very masculine and passionate place. He's more of a sassy drama queen in English. Its okay if you like that version of Emet, but you should also be able to understand why its not okay to tone shift such a massive character in the story.

At the very least I would like the opportunity to see everything written as it should be and as it was made by the Japanese writing team. Its very discouraging constantly feeling like anytime I'm reading text, since most of FFXIV isn't voiced, I'm most likely reading something that is inacurrate

[Voidmage]

I personally disagree that localization is "hard" in this context. If I, an American with like a grade school understanding of Japanese, can see how many issues there are with the changes in the EN version of the game then they are either failing to do their job or someone in charge has decided that the EN version of the game is their game; separate from the Japanese team.

All I will say here to you is to really take a look at the "interview" with Koji Fox by trash taste. He goes into detail there what localization, especially in this game and FFXVI is about and what the hard parts are.
What conclusion you draw from that is your decision.

I don't disagree that the localization could be better but I also don't think it's as bad as it's made out here. But what do I know, I am not a native english speaker who plays in english.

[Astronis]

Actually, it is. Localization does not mean translation. It means making it make sense to the local audience of that region. So, it may be completely different due to the cultural differences of that region, but the spirit of it will be intact because the localization team talk directly to the writers to make sure the "spirit" and "intention" of the story is conveyed still.

This is all true, though of course I don't necessarily want the game to be so localized that it loses its Japanese flavor. For instance, the fate of Venat and Emet-Selch after all is said and done just does not translate well into Western cultural contexts that are so heavily molded by our religious history. Understanding that Venat received the greatest reward by escaping the circle of reincarnation just doesn't fundamentally make sense to Western audiences because our entire culture is informed by religions where resurrection into eternal life is the greatest reward. A lot of Westerners almost instinctively feel like Venat was punished with non-existence, which is quite the opposite of what the story intended! I don't WANT localizers to change the story enough to resonate with Westerners on that point!

On the other hand...I think how they localized the DRK questline worked really well for this exact reason. Westerners are more likely to feel kinship with Angry Esteem than they are Sad Esteem, even though fundamentally they're both the same character. The localization shifted the focus a bit without seriously altering it.

This argument always confuses me, because it makes it seem like you think Japan is some alien planet rather than another country. You don't need to drastically change the words being said in order to 'convey' the '''meaning''' into another language. 99% of the time any given sentance is gonna make perfect sense if you just translate it directly.

Not alien planet, but quite distinct and alien culture. And that's GOOD. That's WONDERFUL. Vive la différence! This is also why bad localization is so horribly bad, it can be cultural vandalism. Striking the right balance is difficult, and requires utmost respect for both Japanese culture and multiple Anglophone cultures. I wonder sometimes if FFXIV currently has a localization team that has that necessary respect or the depth of fluency necessary to do it well. At least, I've seen some English localization in FFXIV that gave me the sense that the localizers lacked experience in English to do the job well. Small things like a rural blacksmith occasionally sounding like she stepped out of a corporate boardroom, little things like that.

Anyhow, I really would like to see both a good localization and a close translation. Both can be excellent when done well.

[RaionKansen]

All I will say here to you is to really take a look at the "interview" with Koji Fox by trash taste. He goes into detail there what localization, especially in this game and FFXVI is about and what the hard parts are.
What conclusion you draw from that is your decision.

I don't disagree that the localization could be better but I also don't think it's as bad as it's made out here. But what do I know, I am not a native english speaker who plays in english.

I've seen it. Koji fox is part of the problem. Koji is why we had a bunch of memes in our minion descriptions even when some of them were heartfelt in Japanese. So much so that they apologized and changed them, like with the Wind-up Moenbryda.
Koji was in charge of 16, and they didn't seem to care about when Clive calls his father "father" or when he calls him by his title in the Japanese. They didn't always differentiate it and its important. Its not even a Japanese thing. Its a common literary device in western fantasy as well.

[DaKitten]

The English localization of this game jeopardizes the integrity of the game and it gets worse the more Japanese I learn.

Having voiced dialogue be so divergent or straight up wrong in comparison to the Japanese is not localization.

If I am not playing in the English dub, I should not get the subtitles for the English dub. It should be subtitles for the actual Japanese.

I also have to assume the rest of the game's text also takes additional liberties for no reason.

I really hope the new person in charge considers some changes.

YES! yes yes yes! Albeit.. GOOD english translation is fine too.

[Valence]

To all the localization apologists in the thread by the way, in the very interview of Koji you linked, he actually fully states that he thinks they went too far in many cases especially early in the game, and that they tried to learn from this for XVI.