Can we go back to using tomes to get relics?

[Kozh]

I rather want similar relic grind like we had back in Heavensward that isn't boring tomestone grind like in Endwalker and rogue lite style grind that punish players without friends like in Stormblood, Shadowbringers and Dawntrail.

And in Dawntrail relic weapon is by far worst when i can't even complete the first part of phantom weapon due to FATE's being completed in seconds and critical encounters requires being in party to prevent losing rewards on death.

No you don't need to be in party for the CE XD

I often go solo and still get the reward. Sure sometimes I die but a quick "rez pls" and all is good.

[UNDEAD10000]

No you don't need to be in party for the CE XD

I often go solo and still get the reward. Sure sometimes I die but a quick "rez pls" and all is good.

If i don't need to be in party to do critical encounters then who i'm able to keep my self alive as DPS when there is no one healing me, i don't know boss mechanics, i'm unable to evade every boss mechanics perfectly and other players are refusing to resurrect me?

[Valence]

You were saying?

Yeah? Point me out where I said that it's too hard or grindy? I'm genuinely confused where you're even getting that from.

Talk about putting words in others mouths...

I already said that I and others "genuinely enjoyed the slow grinds".
Again, if you dislike getting a relic like it was in the past so much than maybe that content wasn't for you. That's fine but don't go around implying people are masochistic or think relics should be unfun for others just because they like that kind of content.
I don't post here "tomestones should disappear as a means to get a relic" or "Hildibrand should be unskipable" so don't make me out as some kind of villain simply because I disagree with your takes on tomestones being grinds equivalent to past relics.
AGAIN, I don't mind tomestones being a form to get relics as a SECOND option. I SIMPLY disagree though on the notion of them being the SAME type of grind and effort as the other relic currencies and am against them being THE ONLY form of getting a relic.
THAT'S my problem and yes, grinding for memories is more engaging than watching cutsenes.

The 1500 tomestones are for one relic step, same as the atmas in DT were or the "lightfarm" and 1500 tomestones was the cost for one relic step in EW as well each and you could easily have them ready before the patch even dropped.

You not doing your dailies doesn't matter because others do them, even with all jobs maxed and ergo accumulate tomestones automatically. I agree things like pvp or fates in OC should reward a better amount to give more options but the dailies are an option that is there and what most people do anyway.


I am out here. I have better things to do than getting insulted over liking slow grinds in a video game...

Ah, here we go, I'm being told that the content isn't for me. Wondered when this would eventually show up. Or maybe you shouldn't do the content since you don't like tome steps? We can play at this game both ways, you can play insulted all you like but I could say what you and other people have been writing the other way around felt the same, but I really don't see the point. You've literally been criticizing tome steps so far, I've been doing the same about atmas, yet I'm the one that shouldn't be doing the content and the one that don't like it? That's rich.

And I don't mind atmas being a form to get relics as a SECOND option too. Where does this leave us then? I certainly never argued for it being the only form of getting a relic, just go by my post history about getting as many options as we can so everybody is having fun if you're not convinced? So what are we getting mad at each other for exactly? Especially since DT seems to be blending both types... but not as alternatives to each other, forcing us to go through both. Perhaps that's why people are arguing so much? Almost all relics have done that unfortunately in one form or another, and perhaps that's their biggest problem and that's what generates a lot of resentment between players.

You can disagree all you want about tomes not being the same grind and effort, that's fine, we can agree to disagree. Sure you can do 1500 tome for a single step and not bother further, but all I'm saying is that it's not designed like that anymore, it's designed for people to have a shot at ALL relics. That's why I'm saying your problem isn't a tome problem but a scope problem (which I can understand), I don't know how much clearer I could say it. If that's what you meant with "slow grinds" then sure, it's a problem of scope then and not of medium.

[ForteNightshade]

They've already thoroughly destroyed the point by now: there's no semblance of a narrative or lore surrounding them, 7.25 was the first step to consist of more than running roulettes(which they immediately defaulted back to) since 5.55, and they're useless even as catchup weapons up until the end of the expansion. They could remove relics entirely, add a special 1500 tomestone weapon in X.55, and the only things lost would be glamour.

It's kind of ironic the whole idea behind Dawntrai is a fresh new start and instead of using the relics as a while to explore actual culture instead of the very "kid friendly" version they attempted with the MSQ, the relics are still primarily a tome dump with zero lore attached them. I can't be the only one who has become downright sick of Gerolt and Rowena? It's the same story told five different ways and it's boring. Once again, XIV can't seem to let characters go when their story is clearly over.

[Voidmage]

Ah, here we go, I'm being told that the content isn't for me. Wondered when this would eventually show up. Or maybe you shouldn't do the content since you don't like tome steps? We can play at this game both ways, you can play insulted all you like but I could say what you and other people have been writing the other way around felt the same, but I really don't see the point. You've literally been criticizing tome steps so far, I've been doing the same about atmas, yet I'm the one that shouldn't be doing the content and the one that don't like it? That's rich.

I didn't say the content ISN'T for you but that maybe it WASN'T for you like it was in the past.
Read my sentence again.

The difference is that I liked how the relics were once and they have been changed from that to something others like, just like the jobs for some people.

You are correct, the EW relics and the DT relics after their initial steps aren't for me, that's why I don't even bother anymore with getting them all, happy?
One big content type I like was removed from the game. Is it surprising why I and others are miffed by that?

I will continue to criticize the tomestone steps as the only second option without wanting them removed because they took the enjoyment I had out of them and in my opinion made getting all of them far too fast (and in the case of EW made even getting the first one an instant thing after a few cutscenes).

So why are you even so aggressive towards me to the point of calling me masochistic or imply I want the steps to be unfun for others?
If I gave a reason for that I apologize but honestly? I think this whole conversation is getting too heated over basically something we can't change when we both have the same solution anyway, namely giving choices as a repeat step after the first.

Speaking of Rowena, there's the same odd and boring "Oh look for whatever reasons the splendors has all that you need and now you need to pay her". How about for once they let us grind and find these materials ourselves?

I also think they could do without Gerold for a change.
I like him but references and "fun continuity" at this point stand a bit in the way of worldbuilding.
There are other blacksmiths or maybe for a change a relic we piece together ourselves through old legends through all nations.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Speaking of Rowena, there's the same odd and boring "Oh look for whatever reasons the splendors has all that you need and now you need to pay her". How about for once they let us grind and find these materials ourselves?

Also I find it odd nobody mentioned anything about hunt trains (at least in NA) when that is the most egregious "easy ticket out" for this supposed grindy tomestones. Suuuurrre... lol.

[Yeonhee]

Depends on what one is doing. I get just a little over 1,200 poetics a week, most of that from Wondrous Tails and Masked Carnivale with a paltry 45 tomes per day from doing the only combat Society in Shadowbringers. Rarely I'll sometimes get to help a new player clear a piece of content for the first-time bonus, and even then I can only help with so much.

It took me over two years to finish the ARR relics because poetics were a drip-feed all the way through and damn near every step required them, and that was back when I was doing roulettes, had more combat Societies I was working on, AND had a bunch of "first-time" bonuses of my own. Likewise, it'll probably take the same length of time to finish the HW relics thanks to Unidentifiable items, Aether Oil, and now the Crystal Sand/Umbrite step, and there's probably more that will demand poetics later.

If people are going to keep complaining about EW relics being "dumb and valueless tomestone weapons" because of the total poetics cost, they better be including ARR and HW relics in that complaint too because outside of atmas and light, it's pretty much tomestones all the way down. Even the dumb books are a "tomestone grind" because it'll probably take longer to get all the required poetics than it will to knock out all the tasks (and that's including the FATEs that may take a while to spawn/can't be done unsync).

When Endwalker was current patch, relics didn't need poetics, they needed the unlimited level 90 tomes that you were gonna get anyway by doing your dailies for the limited one. I said it before, you could very easily get those 1500 tomes in about three days without even specifically aiming for them. ARR and HW also had a lot of grindy step on top of those tomes, all of which EW didn't have. You're arguying in pretty bad faith here.

[TeresaFortell]

It's kind of ironic the whole idea behind Dawntrai is a fresh new start and instead of using the relics as a while to explore actual culture instead of the very "kid friendly" version they attempted with the MSQ, the relics are still primarily a tome dump with zero lore attached them. I can't be the only one who has become downright sick of Gerolt and Rowena? It's the same story told five different ways and it's boring. Once again, XIV can't seem to let characters go when their story is clearly over.

It's always about playing it safe. The formula was working back then, so they thought it would still work, and thus brought the same material to players.

[Valence]

I didn't say the content ISN'T for you but that maybe it WASN'T for you like it was in the past.
Read my sentence again.

The difference is that I liked how the relics were once and they have been changed from that to something others like, just like the jobs for some people.

You are correct, the EW relics and the DT relics after their initial steps aren't for me, that's why I don't even bother anymore with getting them all, happy?
One big content type I like was removed from the game. Is it surprising why I and others are miffed by that?

I will continue to criticize the tomestone steps as the only second option without wanting them removed because they took the enjoyment I had out of them and in my opinion made getting all of them far too fast (and in the case of EW made even getting the first one an instant thing after a few cutscenes).

So why are you even so aggressive towards me to the point of calling me masochistic or imply I want the steps to be unfun for others?
If I gave a reason for that I apologize but honestly? I think this whole conversation is getting too heated over basically something we can't change when we both have the same solution anyway, namely giving choices as a repeat step after the first.

This is why we can't comprehend each other. I do not think relics have changed in what they require us to do. It's always been about atmas (fates) and/or roulettes/tomes. Sometimes a mix of those. Some extremely fringe attempts to include crafting (anima's sands) as an option which was actually nice, or eureka trying to gate relics behind it which infuriated a lot of people back then that didn't like eureka. Like genuinely, the things we're asked to do, the tasks, haven't changed a iota since ARR/HW.

What has changed is the amount of relics you can get with the same amount of "effort". Like one relic for 30k tomes in HW (at release, nerfed after) vs 21 relics in DT for example (will probably not get nerfed, like for EW). Can we agree on that or nah?

I apologize for the masochistic comment, which was more aimed at the community - because I do feel that a lot of people consider a that a grind cannot be about something engaging you do regularly for genuine fun because then it's not about effort anymore in their mind. Not that it excuses my slippery slope, but you also did reply pretty aggressively. I've always appreciate reading your opinions on this forum for what it's worth.

[Supersnow845]

Never been on a hunt train, as I don't really do any content that's "Discord only" as I prefer not to be glued to that app 24/7 just to get something done.

Hunts are done through cross world link shells more often. That’s literally an in game feature encouraging cooperation with others