Can we go back to using tomes to get relics?

[Mikey_R]

I find it extremely puzzling to read that people can attribute any value behind relic weapons (even ARR), but I guess it's just me...

It isn't just about the relic itself as an item, it can be the journey you went through to get the weapon that makes it special for that person. Those memories are attached to that weapon, just like any sort of memorabilia you might have in real life.

[Infindox]

I find it extremely puzzling to read that people can attribute any value behind relic weapons (even ARR), but I guess it's just me...

Because you take time in doing them? I'm not sure why you're puzzled about it.

Example: me and one of my friends started playing around patch HW and when we got to the Anima weapons I think it took us months to get the first one. Because we enjoy the fact that we worked hard for them we use them as glamour on those jobs (BLM and PLD) most of the time. Those weapons aren't exactly that difficult to get today (the one step that took me hours sitting in a pf repeating A1S over and over now is 20 or less quick unsynced runs of A9S) but they still mean something to ME.

You can pretty much say that about any reward in this game. Most of them get easier over time but you will still see people say this mount is their favorite, or this minion is, or this title.

[Infindox]

Didn't add to my post (on mobile currently so can't edit it) but that's why so many people dislike the EW weapons because they take little to no effort to finish, and barely any lore behind them where ARR + HW make the weapon feel like its an ultimate weapon you're making, StB's has you going to a zone filled with bizzare creatures and weather in order to make a special weapon, ShB has you pretty much fight in a warzone (+ fighting against god-like enties and a Queen) and DT so far at least makes you grind a bit for a step.
In EW you just... Stuff tomes into an NPC and you get it.

[Eastwall]

They will buff drop rate later on

[SicariusSeven]

I hated the DT grind at first but then got used to it. Bozja felt better for sure cause it felt like a good mix of doing content or the Bozja zones. Tomes are good for AFTER the initial grind. The END Manderville stuff was too easy, other than the fact that you had to have Hildebrand stuff unlocked.

[Valence]

If you don't like bozja/OC, fine, but shouldn't you advocate for improvement rather than go "this sucks, let's just make future relic tomestones (like EW)"?

Don't put stuff you obviously made up under quotes like I wrote something like this (I never did). I've always advocated for improvement when it comes to fates, out of all things. I've always advocated for more CLL/Dalriada and less dumb fates and basic vapid grind in field ops.

Currently tome relics are the less tedious stuff for me when going after relics, but that's just me individually.

I'd like relics to have better content, but so far it's been total shit half the time. But people find it good, and what I find good, they find bad. So we're stuck in that perpetual loop of the devs swinging back and forth between the exact same relic steps since the dawn of time: when it's not fate grinding (atmas, etc), it's dungeon/roulette grinding (books, light farming, etc). We've also had tome grinds as well, notably in Anima. The only time it's changed was for eureka were relics got gated behind the whole content. Even bozja had alternatives that were either fates, or dungeons, depending on the step.

I do not know what the answer is. You'll never have 100% of the population happy with whatever they pick, even if they introduce something brand new for them (cf how Eureka was received).

Because I’m not talking about Bozja and eureka, I’m talking about grinding in general. The relics have always been a grind but the form of the grind has differed. EW’s relics are NOT a grind. But they are praised as “giving people options” because people apparently need more reasons to run roulettes or do CC they were already doing

EW relics are a grind too. Perhaps not as grindy as some other relics but that's a damn load of tomestones that were needed still. I know the argument is always "but I do my roulettes every day anyway" so what? You're playing the game and grinding on something. People could also argue that fate grinding is literally working on your bigems and every goodies behind the shared fate system anyway. Relics that require you to do alliance raids, etc, are exactly like tome grinds as well. Like what, do you think I did roulettes daily outside of EW relic steps? With all my jobs at max level and no use for my tomes?? Same shit literally. You can also do 5-10 fates a day and be done with fate relics in the same amount of time, it's no different than doing dailies for the sake of it.

If you like doing something then do it for the sake of it. You (general you) shouldn’t need to co-opt relics to generate incentives for content that you supposedly enjoy doing anyway but that’s exactly what the EW relics were, people co-opting relics and removing their grind to generate incentives for content they supposedly already liked doing

I do not understand that sentence at all.

[Gullis]

it is already mostly just a tomestone relic. having to only do the first step in a specific manner once, is more than generous.

[AmiableApkallu]

I've always advocated for more CLL/Dalriada and less dumb fates and basic vapid grind in field ops.

CLL, Dalriada, and DRN while we're at it, are basically 6-ish boss FATEs/CEs chained back to back. They are 90% comprised of the "DDR slop" that you despise. (I'll give CLL's prisoners and Dalriada's three hallways a pass.)

I've heard of the STB/SHB/DT relics being useful in their respective Field Operation, but I wasn't aware that any of them were useful for certain Ultimates.

To my knowledge, it's only the StB relic that specifically provides additional benefits in its corresponding field op, and only at the final stage.

[Valence]

CLL, Dalriada, and DRN while we're at it, are basically 6-ish boss FATEs/CEs chained back to back. They are 90% comprised of the "DDR slop" that you despise. (I'll give CLL's prisoners and Dalriada's three hallways a pass.)

That's fair and I'm aware of it. I also used it because frankly, no matter people's opinion on the current pve model, they were quite beloved pieces of endgame content for casuals/everyone.

Still, CLL starts up with extremely creative and unconventional bosses at the wall, which is already a breath of fresh air and requires some team coordination. Next we get to deal with semi rng objectives (captives) to find and save by exploring the place, which feels already a lot more like a real dungeon or raid than the usual boss in a circular arena kind of slop we keep getting in other types of content. I do agree that past that point CLL goes back to what's essentially a DDR boss gauntlet with not much novelty beyond the party of "good players" you have to form at the last boss to go deal with Lyon.

Dalriada also starts trudging through mobs on a ramp and then properly working through lasers while the other part of the alliance deals with the controls, which I find to be a really cool concept, and again promotes team coordination with unusual trash mechanics that are actually close to what you'll find in criterion (notably the sprite section after the first boss in Rokkon). Then again, true, Dalriada just goes back to DDR boss gauntlet.

[Brandr]

If you don't like bozja/OC, fine, but shouldn't you advocate for improvement rather than go "this sucks, let's just make future relic tomestones (like EW)"?

This is the most rational comment!