Nerf Warrior (please)

[Crafoutis]

I've been playing MMO's since Ultima Online. If you're not aware that there are people who enjoy playing MMO's solo then I don't know what to tell you, maybe get more life experience?

[Supersnow845]

I love how you just ignored 90% of my comment

I know people enjoy solo play (though “I enjoy the game for what it is” is such a vaguely pointless way of pointing that out), but in older games that encouraged or supported solo play they didn’t ALSO force cooperation but then also ignore said cooperation by allowing you to continue to ignore everyone by using something that allowed you to play solo

Either cooperation was completely optional (or required for only optional things) or otherwise cooperating “turned off” stuff that made solo play more available but you didn’t mix both of them

So again I’ll ask, if tomorrow made my (SCH’s) AOE permanently stun the enemies with no falloff so you were “tanking” the enemies but not actually functionally doing anything that required your presence and I justified the change as “but I like playing solo and I need enemies to be permanently stunned because I like being self sufficient and keeping myself alive” would you accept that change? Would you be happy to be functionally vestigial because to the closest letter of the explanation you were still technically doing your job

Because if the answer is yes and everyone should have the unilateral power to ignore everyone else then why does cooperative play even exist in the game anymore

Is it really that hard to understand that your immortal solo self sufficiency ends when you reach content that enforces others to play with you? Why is your fun more important than my fun

[Crafoutis]

To be honest, I read the first sentence and just ignored the rest, you're right. Just like this latest one lol

You think as a Warrior main I'm here to read your novel? ������

[Supersnow845]

Well at least you are honest

Completely and utterly selfish but honest

Not sure whether that deserves respect or not but…………yeah

[Rithy255]

If they do nerf WAR healing they need to supplement it with more mitigation tools or added mitigation on existing tools. Right now WAR suffers from having too much healing and not enough mitigation.

Does it really though?

If we compare warriors mitigation kit to other tanks it's really not that far behind It's short mit got two 10%'s and a 400 potency shield thrill while not a mitigation does extend your hp which is effectively another way of mitigating damage, It's got the Shortest Invul by a large mile the only way it lacks is it's 40% compared to how broken GNB and PLD's are isn't as good.

Honestly if you nerfed warriors self healing it would still be a good tank, I think the problem isn't fully Self or target healing in the first place with tanks, it's the combination of having a abundance of mitigation & healing combined with a low output which is the true problem.

Ideally we need to rebalance all tanks kits to have lower mitigation and sustained value (along with healers having too many random heal ogcds) while giving them more interesting and unique things to do.

[A-Omega]

I really like Warrior as it is, I play this game by myself and I strongly desire a job precisely as Warrior is now, which is to me defined by its self-sufficiency.

I really hope they do not remove this identity. I'm sorry that healers feel bored if they're not the glue holding a group together when there is a WAR tank, but them's the breaks.

I’m a WAR main myself…or at least I was when the term meant something.
For me, WAR is the most boring job to play. There’s nothing fun about fishing for fell cleave while GNB/DRK/PLD all have so much more to do. The new inner release abilities are flashy and fun, but you don’t get them often enough to combat the boredom.

As far as the healing side goes. WAR isn’t the only tank that has self sustain or the best self sustain. PLD does exist even though mentioning it is calling down the thunder. We get all the hate though.

Healers shouldn’t blame WARs for their boredom. They should keep demanding a damage rotation. If they had one, every healer would be happy to see a WAR in dungeon runs.

I don’t agree with the self sufficient part of your comment, but SE has pushed the game more into the solo RPG side and away from its MMO roots so I understand your point.

[aiqa]

As far as the healing side goes. WAR isn’t the only tank that has self sustain or the best self sustain. PLD does exist even though mentioning it is calling down the thunder. We get all the hate though.

If claiming PLD has better self sustain than WAR gets some pushback, that might be because it's false and an obvious deflection. PLD sustain is also overtuned (at higher levels), but not close to WAR when played equally proficient.

Healers shouldn’t blame WARs for their boredom. They should keep demanding a damage rotation. If they had one, every healer would be happy to see a WAR in dungeon runs.

No they wouldn't. Many people play healer because they like to heal. Just adding some damage buttons to healers isn't going to fix things.
And I don't blame individual WAR players for boring dungeon runs. I blame WAR design/balance. I am not asking for individual players to change. I want WAR design/balance to change.

I don’t agree with the self sufficient part of your comment, but SE has pushed the game more into the solo RPG side and away from its MMO roots so I understand your point.

There is no solo RPG content in FF that needs the self sustain WAR has. And even if there was, that should not be exclusive to one (or two if PLD suffices) class. If SE genuinely wants some single player focus, that should be across the board. That needs far more equal individual performance between jobs, so that is an even stronger reason to massively nerf tank sustain.

[A-Omega]

If claiming PLD has better self sustain than WAR gets some pushback, that might be because it's false and an obvious deflection. PLD sustain is also overtuned (at higher levels), but not close to WAR when .

I guess we’re ignoring PLD having the strongest heal in the game along with damage on hit (and the best defense so they don’t take half the damage which makes healing them even easier). No, WAR isn’t the only one with self sustain. Let me guess, “it’s a dps loss so I don’t use it”. No, it’s not false. If it were true, PLD wouldn’t be able to do the same exact things a WAR can. Ie…DRK/GBN has to struggle to solo a boss while PLD/WAR can easily. The pushback you speak of is the masses protecting their “perfect tank job”. There’s an entire trend about just that. Funny how no other community has a post like that.

No solo support? Trust system??? Didn’t they redesign the dungeons so the trust system worked better? Aren’t trails being included in the trust system? Variant dungeons can be played solo, OC/Bozja/Eureka all support solo play. There’s even achievements for completing deep dungeons solo..

The OP said they were bored. There’s another trend about healers being bored due to lack of dps rotation. They even planned to stage a boycott. Guess I’m completely wrong even though I’m speaking to what the community has said.

[A-Omega]

The game design as a whole is flawed and has only gotten worse over the years. Demanding a single job be “nerfed” for something others do while performing worlds better, is insane. Someone posted the most logical take on all of it. TANKS have too much self sustain combined with strong defensives while healers have way too many ogcd heals and overturned healing abilities. That’s the problem. Instead of targeting a single job, why not address the actual problem.

I added another fact…they changed WAR to what it is now. The original design supported needed the extra healing because it lacked the mit other tanks had. Again, that’s SE making a mistake and thinking a bandaid solution will solve it.

[Carighan]

The game design as a whole is flawed and has only gotten worse over the years. Demanding a single job be “nerfed” for something others do while performing worlds better, is insane. Someone posted the most logical take on all of it. TANKS have too much self sustain combined with strong defensives while healers have way too many ogcd heals and overturned healing abilities. That’s the problem. Instead of targeting a single job, why not address the actual problem.

Yeah, and from either side this can be fixed:

* Either, as with most MMORPGs, they need to massively increase the HP pools of everyone compared to the incoming damage, then in turn massively increase both the frequency and the spread of incoming damage (so you take longer to die, but overall you also have a ton more incoming damage so all that defensive tooling and healer output is actually challenged).
* Or, as Guild Wars 2, they need to more-or-less remove tanks (and healers), making everyone fully DPS-first-and-foremost, removing most extra HP, defensive tools and healing, and embracing a very low-damage-intake style where the former tanks are more "bruisers" (slightly more durable DPS but they can't truly "tank" either) and the former healers are more support-y, with more buffs and such less heals.

But either way it's a significant underlying change to the combat system, akin to ripping it out and replacing it with a different one, demanding more or less that every implementation of every single skill in the game needs to be looked at and possibly replaced.