Nerf Warrior (please)

[Grimforth]

This topic again…time for the way back when machine.

For those who don’t know…WAR is in this position because of changes SE made to its original concept. PLD’s/DRK’s tank stance had mit built into it while WAR’s didn’t. WAR’s tank stance increased hp and healing received. All mitigation came from gear and cds. The health on hit was to compensate for the lack of base mitigation. Even the old defensives played into to the kill it before it kills you mentally…ie Raw Intuition being a parry for all damage coming from the front but a crit for damage from the flanks/rear. This is also why WAR did more damage than other tanks. Add in a dps stance that removed your bonus health/healing and damage healing made even more sense.

What the complaint SHOULD be is, “Revert WAR to its original concept and work out whatever kinks made them decide to change it”. Maybe I’ll make that a post again.

Honestly this is why Warrior self healing is so stupid compared to the other tanks.

Don't get me wrong, I still love my gunbreaker but I honestly might want to level a warrior next.

[aiqa]

Honestly this is why Warrior self healing is so stupid compared to the other tanks.

It's a dumb reason though. That design was almost a decade ago. And even in 7.0 WAR got buffs to its healing.

[A-Omega]

It's a dumb reason though. That design was almost a decade ago. And even in 7.0 WAR got buffs to its healing.

Regardless of it being a dumb reason, it’s still true. SE and Yoshi P have a thing with breaking things then slapping a bandaid on it like that makes things better

[A-Omega]

Honestly this is why Warrior self healing is so stupid compared to the other tanks.

Don't get me wrong, I still love my gunbreaker but I honestly might want to level a warrior next.

The original version was the best version. True, it had its flaws but the concept was super fun with an extremely high skill ceiling.

[Rithy255]

I wouldn't say "nerf" it, it honestly needs a overhaul to be a healthy job... It's not really that good in savage other tanks are usually better other then for invul cheese, though its self healing is absurd self healing isn't important when you get to the "higher end" of content.

Though largely I think support jobs (Tanks & Healers) need to actually be redesigned, I personally think sustain, self healing and even target healing is fine on a tank but with current healer design theirs no reason why tanks have those skills. I wanna play a game that can both utilise tanks having some supportive healing skills while also not stepping on the healers role too much.

[Oizen]

I'd only be ok with a WAR nerf if it was part of a core design philosophy shift to make healers feel more needed/engaging in low end content.

In which I do also think PLD, GNB and DRK also need nerfs.

[Carighan]

I'll be honest, I always feel old when I read how FFXIV old-timers say they miss something like "back when jobs needed skill" or "back when we had high risk / high reward gameplay".

You might need to look across the pond more. What you long for as better class design is just a different flavor of bad class design other MMOs have long tried out, abolished because it didn't work either (same as FFXIV in that regard), and/or copied these results from existing long-running MMOs like WoW, DAoC or EQ1 or so to then avoid stepping into the issues.

That is, Warrior has a lot of design flaws now. No, it didn't have fewer in past days, just different ones. Instead of trying to re-invent the wheel, just crib aggressively from other games, because they handily made the mistakes already so later devs can avoid them. Want a self-healing I-take-the-damage-then-reheal-it tank? Hey luckily for the FFXIV devs, WoW had like 15 iterations of Blood Death Knight already so you can just look at every single design element and why it survived or didn't survive iterating on this design! Want a hyper-aggressive unstoppable juggernaut? Look no further than all the ways WoW's Fury Warrior or GW2's entire Warrior class didn't work out in many regards, and avoid committing the same mistakes!

On a further tangent, I find the notion that every job needs a high skill ceiling but low skill floor to be cool, but also a bit pointless: If this were a decision you could "just make", no game would ever release diverging from this. There's no downside to this utopian design, so there is never a reason not to do this. Since most games don't do this, it is clearly evident that it is hard~impossible to design this consistently.

[Supersnow845]

I mean if you have a job that’s a 3/10 and the devs change it to a 1/10 then wanting the 3/10 back isn’t wrong just because another game has a similar class design intent that is a 7/10

I also wouldn’t say it’s wrong to say only wanting the 3/10 back at the exclusion of all others is also wrong but I don’t think that’s anywhere near as common as the former

[DivineP]

Huh there's a 10000 thread on why healers want to be relevant. Wonder why

[DivineP]

When this gets needed I'm going to laugh