League levels of toxic behavour in game.

[Kohashi]

And if there is a significant difference to point out about here and WoW is that people here think it's okay for a tank to behave like they're entitled to have everyone else go their pace where as in WoW, any similar person gets no such concessions. And that class and dungeon design are far more extensive and better designed overall, but that bears little meaning in the current discussion.

I don't get why you think a slow tank is entitled, while your forced pace isn't as well. Just have patience, maybe they are new, maybe they are trying something new, maybe.... they are just bad. If you don't like the pace, you can leave or ask them nicely to kick you (cause you need to do something else..lol).

People who deliberately click their healer jobs, and queue up to try to DPS are wasting everyone's time. You're not THERE to DPS.

Yes, you are. The faster things die, the less you have to heal. However, a tank that dies is also not good. There has to be a balance between the two to ensure the group moves forward at a reasonable pace.

Having the healer unable to keep me alive because my health took 75% drop once that little shite returns with half the instance trailing him is unacceptable, and I should absolutely expect that healer to stop doing damage and funnel heals into me until this mess gets cleaned up.

You should be able to tank all of those with appropriate mitigation; however, if you are dropping very low, the healer should indeed keep you alive.

as for the rest of your post.... no offense but it genuinely sounds like you just don't enjoy tanking..? tanks barely even have anything to do if you just sit there on one or two little packs.

In all fairness, ARR dungeons are so annoying to run and have such a weird pace (compared to new ones). Also, you need to have a pretty seasoned healer and tank to pull wall to wall in those because more often than not, the pack of 3 does a LOT of damage. You have to respect them..lol.

[velkettin]

In all fairness, ARR dungeons are so annoying to run and have such a weird pace (compared to new ones). Also, you need to have a pretty seasoned healer and tank to pull wall to wall in those because more often than not, the pack of 3 does a LOT of damage. You have to respect them..lol.

ehhh... admittedly i don't touch the side dungeons but the only dungeon you see frequently that actually requires respect is stone vigil.

[BokoToloko]

You know nothing about me, aside from what I've typed here. Take your inference and stick it, you dont know what roles I play.

And i dont know what roles YOU play.

And you know what I *DO* know about you?

Buckle up, sunshine.

I know I like your screen name here.
I know we've both had bad and good runs, good and bad groups, and we BOTH prefer it when things run smoother than the prom queens unmentionables.

And for the record, I do use my invulns on predictably big pulls.

Believing a healer can't keep you alive and DPS denotes well enough you don't know the extent of both the healer's kit and/or how healers can weave sufficient healing without using those that run on a golbal cooldown. Or how a tank using the mitigation properly vastly reduces the healing needed, which lends even more credence to how little you're aware of a healer's kit to believe DPSing and healing are exclusive for a healer.

If I know you're inexperienced, it's because you just give it away with many statements that have nothing to do how the game and the duties really work.

And, "for the record" I use the invulnerability at FIRST chance and precisely to give the healer time to not bother with the healing and keep dpsing the npcs, contrary to you, who explicitly stated you do NOT want to use invuln for those cases.

I don't get why you think a slow tank is entitled, while your forced pace isn't as well. Just have patience, maybe they are new, maybe they are trying something new, maybe.... they are just bad. If you don't like the pace, you can leave or ask them nicely to kick you (cause you need to do something else..lol).

A slow tank and an entitled tank are different things. A slow tank is just slow. An entitled tank is slow and, on top, will throw a hissy fit over someone being ahead of them, like user displayed previously displayed.

And, after many queues, I've learned the way to actually shape up a bad tank is to take them out of their comfort zones. They will never know how far they can get until they actually try. This goes specially when I'm a healer because I know my limits and it's me who needs to worry about keeping the tank alive, whereas the tank job is to keep aggro and throw mits. And it's also a lot easier to gauge their mit usage and advice them accordingly that way, because a tank that doesn't mit properly (or slow dps) will eventually force me to waste GCD healing them.

Only times I do not force a full wall to wall pull are Dzemael Darkhold between first and second boss, Stone Vigil, for the reason the user above states, and Mt.Gulg mega-pulls before first and last bosses (though anyone who goes for it deserves my respect for it) because the pulls are double as large as usual. And even then, my kudos go to the newbies who actually try, even if we wipe. Because wiping is inconsequential, and trying to push your limits is commendable. And a newbie learning is worth every wipe on the way.

[jonimated]

I struggle to understands how this is a serious issue, though i only have my own experience to pull from.

I am that DPS who will run ahead of the tank, but realistically I'm only running ahead if the tank forgot to put Sprint on their bar. Usually I'm running with the tank who also pops Sprint at the same time. Even if I get head I will use Arms Reach and/or self mitigation. I'm only ever with the enemy pack for a couple seconds before the tank shows up. To be honest if a DPS is in a pack long enough to die then I would question whether the tank is even moving at all, with or without Sprint.

As for movement abilities tanks have targeted a gap closer with an admittedly long range. The only jobs who should be able to get significantly ahead of a tank are Ninja, who arguably has the best movement ability in the game on top of a natural speed boost. And maybe Dancer? The rest either have a gap closer that requires a target, which the tank also has, or a movement ability with a cooldown that can't be spammed.

Are DPS running ahead really a big enough issue to warrant an angry post and a 20 page thread? I personally have not experienced this, even as the person who sometimes does run ahead. It's always totally fine and a non-issue for everyone involved.

[BlisteringFrost]

that's great for people who play those games. i'm not playing those, i'm playing ffxiv, a game in which who pulled first barely matters as long as your party isn't filled with people actively eating crayons. and if you're 30 entire yards behind a dps you are doing something wrong lmfao

I forgot my tank stance. Whoops!

[BlisteringFrost]

I don't get why you think a slow tank is entitled, while your forced pace isn't as well. Just have patience, maybe they are new, maybe they are trying something new, maybe.... they are just bad. If you don't like the pace, you can leave or ask them nicely to kick you (cause you need to do something else..lol).

I watched a DPS die to the angry bees in Dohn Mheg because they ran ahead enough to eat enough Unfinal Stings to kill them before I could reign the mobs onto myself.

It is, in fact, a bad idea to pull ahead of the tank.

[velkettin]

I forgot my tank stance. Whoops!

telling me you're the one eating crayons means very little.

[Kaurhz]

To be honest...

Pulling ahead of the tank isn't inherently bad, but more often than not people on this game just seem allergic to doing basic communication, and to be honest if you're going to go ahead and pull, and not communicate then at the very least reel them into the tank so they can be swiped naturally with AoE, otherwise at that point you're just as big of a problem as a 'slow' tank.

[Kohashi]

I watched a DPS die to the angry bees in Dohn Mheg because they ran ahead enough to eat enough Unfinal Stings to kill them before I could reign the mobs onto myself.

It is, in fact, a bad idea to pull ahead of the tank.

Hahaha, Final Sting traumatizing people since ARR. Final Sting is, in fact, a heavy tank buster despite the lack of visuals. That's one reason why Dohn Mheg is considered a Tank/ heal check. It's supposed to test your mitting rotation. You need generally around 30-40% it to survive. I actually use Invuln on that stack.

A slow tank and an entitled tank are different things. A slow tank is just slow. An entitled tank is slow and, on top, will throw a hissy fit over someone being ahead of them, like user displayed previously displayed.

And, after many queues, I've learned the way to actually shape up a bad tank is to take them out of their comfort zones. They will never know how far they can get until they actually try. This goes specially when I'm a healer because I know my limits and it's me who needs to worry about keeping the tank alive, whereas the tank job is to keep aggro and throw mits. And it's also a lot easier to gauge their mit usage and advice them accordingly that way, because a tank that doesn't mit properly (or slow dps) will eventually force me to waste GCD healing them.

Only times I do not force a full wall to wall pull are Dzemael Darkhold between first and second boss, Stone Vigil, for the reason the user above states, and Mt.Gulg mega-pulls before first and last bosses (though anyone who goes for it deserves my respect for it) because the pulls are double as large as usual. And even then, my kudos go to the newbies who actually try, even if we wipe. Because wiping is inconsequential, and trying to push your limits is commendable. And a newbie learning is worth every wipe on the way.

I mean, it's pretty fair to be annoyed if somebody actually made you do something you weren't planning on doing. If they wanted to go fast, they would have.

In all fairness, it's not often that I see a super slow tank. Generally, sprouts and lower-level tanks are a lot more timid, which is understandable, so I am being patient with them.

I don't feel Stone Vigil and Darkhold are challenging because you already have your main mit rotations.
As for Mt Gulg. I don't get why people are saying it's difficult. You invuln, then rampart + bulkwark + sheltron, and then if you got any left overs, you do sheltron + arms length + reprisal. Easy peasy... where is the issue? After the second boss, your invuln is up again, and you pull all the packs again. easy life..

What I do find to be challenging is actually Holminster Switch, which is again another tank/healer check dungeon, especially because some of the mobs there apply Vuln up to phys damage. Healers should cleanse that, but 99% of healers never do or know it's possible to do.

[theunhappypotato]

just pop sprint and aoe every once in a while, its not that deep