Wuk Lamat

[Auro_Seldaris]

That moment and also the gospel train bomb montage had me laughing for days at the absurd events written into the story.

Remember, you're a racist if you call it gospel music! :P

Seriously though, I stand corrected. I have desperately tried to forget it, but the SMILE Train Bomb Montage was the FIRST jump the shark moment in DT. Silly upbeat happy music while we construct a weapon of mass destruction was just so ridiculous. Putting aside the weak attempt at recreating the Trolley Stuff from Shadowbringers (right down to cameos from The Trolley Guys themselves) and the "Everyone we Befriended Comes Together to Help Build the Golem" scene from same, the happy music was just... complete tonal whiplash.

Imagine them assembling and testing the atomic bomb in Oppenheimer, while "C'mon Get Happy" by the Partridge Family bops away in the background. Or the "Life of a Bullet" sequence from the opening of Lord of War, while Pharell's "Happy" is playing. Or "Mmmmmbop" by Hanson over the "What's in the Box?" scene in Se7en.

Totally inappropriate, unless intended to be firmly tongue-in-cheek, and I doubt that level of irony was intended.

[Exmo]

Imagine if they did that with Lyse? You're fighting Shinryu in Stormblood and just before the end of the fight, Lyse comes in with a flying kick and goes like "Yeah WoL, I did it!"

Ardbert, Emet Selch and Zenos have all shown up at the eleventh hour against a final boss to give the player an essential assist. Nobody complains about them, though. People get angry when you point this out.

[Hallarem]

Ardbert, Emet Selch and Zenos have all shown up at the eleventh hour against a final boss to give the player an essential assist. Nobody complains about them, though. People get angry when you point this out.

Oh there's been plenty of complaining about the Zenos thing and how it made absolutely zero sense. Much like the Wuk Lamat one.

With Wuk Lamat it's a screentime issue, people not wanting to see her anymore and her power level being essentially "What the plot needs" instead of it making any sense.

With Zenos it's that he was clearly a cutting on the writing teams floor that they had to forcefully insert in, because they wanted to get rid of him for that "final fight" between us. So Krile got fired with the writers dumb dumb beam and the whole nation of Sharlayan too just went "Yeah, let him eat the mothercrystal and send him after the WoL to fly a real quick 5 minutes to the END OF THE UNIVERSE (still can't believe they did that) to help his MORTAL ENEMY"

[Amariel34]

Ardbert, Emet Selch and Zenos have all shown up at the eleventh hour against a final boss to give the player an essential assist. Nobody complains about them, though. People get angry when you point this out.

I think the reason nobody complains about them is they didn't actually help fight (technically maybe Ardbert did, but also not really). They just popped in, helped, then peaced out. Also them helping us didn't come completely out of nowhere. Ardbert was a part of us and just merged with us. Emet was brought in through the stone of Azem and just brought us back from the void place. Zenos just gave us a ride and acted as our arena. Wuk Lamat breaking in and able to almost take on Sphene solo just doesn't make sense. How come she, and only she, was able to get in? How did she even find her way to us? How come she's THAT dang strong without any reason? If there is an explanation for any of those, I would honestly love to hear them. No sarcasm.

Thank you for reading and I wish all a pleasant day.

[Exmo]

Oh there's been plenty of complaining about the Zenos thing and how it made absolutely zero sense. Much like the Wuk Lamat one.

With Wuk Lamat it's a screentime issue, people not wanting to see her anymore and her power level being essentially "What the plot needs" instead of it making any sense.

With Zenos it's that he was clearly a cutting on the writing teams floor that they had to forcefully insert in, because they wanted to get rid of him for that "final fight" between us. So Krile got fired with the writers dumb dumb beam and the whole nation of Sharlayan too just went "Yeah, let him eat the mothercrystal and send him after the WoL to fly a real quick 5 minutes to the END OF THE UNIVERSE (still can't believe they did that) to help his MORTAL ENEMY"

Yep it was fairly naff for a bunch of different reasons. By comparison, WL arbitrarily falling through a dimensional rift is less absurd and certainly more fitting to her role and dramatic centrality in the story. Yet, people are far more vitriolic towards WL in her moment versus Zenos in his - I haven't seen nearly as much aggression in the community towards the latter.

Even if one does not like the character of WL (which, fair), one should be able to easily realize why she is given that honour in the final fight instead of a character who is tertiary in the story like any scion. There are far better angles one can take when criticizing WL's characterisation. Focussing on The Interphos just reads as an uncontrolled emotional reaction.

[Exmo]

I think the reason nobody complains about them is they didn't actually help fight (technically maybe Ardbert did, but also not really). They just popped in, helped, then peaced out. Also them helping us didn't come completely out of nowhere. Ardbert was a part of us and just merged with us. Emet was brought in through the stone of Azem and just brought us back from the void place. Zenos just gave us a ride and acted as our arena. Wuk Lamat breaking in and able to almost take on Sphene solo just doesn't make sense. How come she, and only she, was able to get in? How did she even find her way to us? How come she's THAT dang strong without any reason? If there is an explanation for any of those, I would honestly love to hear them. No sarcasm.

Thank you for reading and I wish all a pleasant day.

I think if Graha were to jump into a trial and LB the boss, there would be top selling merchandise of it in the shop.

I've addressed the other questions in my previous post. Leaning on lore to provide explanations of dramatic intent is not the way to go. We can legitimize her strength by drawing on the fact that DT is well established as a journey of growth in her character, spiritually and physically; we can talk about how she can LB because of dynamis, etc etc hand wave it away.

Many who want answers to these questions won't find satisfaction from the lore because their issue does not really come from the integrity of world building. For me, the question of whether WL could LB the final boss according to established lore, is less interesting than whether WL being able to do so is justified by the story's dramatic composition.

[Amariel34]

I think if Graha were to jump into a trial and LB the boss, there would be top selling merchandise of it in the shop.

I've addressed the other questions in my previous post. Leaning on lore to provide explanations of dramatic intent is not the way to go. We can legitimize her strength by drawing on the fact that DT is well established as a journey of growth in her character, spiritually and physically; we can talk about how she can LB because of dynamis, etc etc hand wave it away.

Many who want answers to these questions won't find satisfaction from the lore because their issue does not really come from the integrity of world building. For me, the question of whether WL could LB the final boss according to established lore, is less interesting than whether WL being able to do so is justified by the story's dramatic composition.

Actually I would have raised an eyebrow so high it would have left my face had G'raha done that. And I love that boy. We've never had any Scions help during the actual final battle so ANY of them actually assisting in a final battle would have been weird to me.

Also, please forgive me if I am misunderstanding what you have said. Sometimes I need things stated simply and bluntly for my brain to figure them out. It's just the way my neurodivergant brain works. So you're basically saying there's no real logical reason for WL to be able to break into a dimension and almost single-handedly take on a boss that the WoL and adventurer friends/other WoLs couldn't other than she's the star of the expansion? That's what I'm getting so please feel free to correct me if I am not getting it correct. The whole "being able to LB cause dynamis" part I get. It's more the "suddenly exponentially stronger than before with no real reason and can break into dimensions" part I don't get. If it's just cause she's the main character and nothing much else, then okay. Weird, but okay.

Again, sorry if I am misunderstanding you. I'm just not good at reading between lines and need things put more simply/bluntly for my brain to understand them properly.

[All_Nonsense]

I would personally want Sphene to come with us for the next arc, but being realistic she'll most likely be Queen along with Gulool.

The only satisfactory ending for this "expansion story" for me would be if we put Sphene, the turtle kid, and Wuk Lamat in that underground castle and blew it up, burying them and this terrible story for eternity. I'll even accept Zenos coming back to assist us with it (someone said in this thread that no one has ever complained about Zenos. I think they must've been highly inebriated when they wrote it so I'll give them a pass)

[Hallarem]

Yep it was fairly naff for a bunch of different reasons. By comparison, WL arbitrarily falling through a dimensional rift is less absurd and certainly more fitting to her role and dramatic centrality in the story. Yet, people are far more vitriolic towards WL in her moment versus Zenos in his - I haven't seen nearly as much aggression in the community towards the latter.

Even if one does not like the character of WL (which, fair), one should be able to easily realize why she is given that honour in the final fight instead of a character who is tertiary in the story like any scion. There are far better angles one can take when criticizing WL's characterisation. Focussing on The Interphos just reads as an uncontrolled emotional reaction.

I agree that the drama focused towards Wuk Lamat focuses on the wrong angle, and pinpoints to something that misses the whole issue with Wuk Lamat. Which in my opinion at least is her overbearing screentime compared to other characters and the lack of interesting writing and dialogue and tackling her motivation and the whole pacing of the story for her arc being bungled. I always think she COULD have been a great character. While I thought the voice actress fumbled a bit from here to there, I could've just switched to Japanese and the issues with the character would still be there.

[Exmo]

Actually I would have raised an eyebrow so high it would have left my face had G'raha done that. And I love that boy. We've never had any Scions help during the actual final battle so ANY of them actually assisting in a final battle would have been weird to me.

Fair enough. We can discuss taste until the cows come home. At the end of the day it hasn't happened so we can only speculate how people would react. More to my initial point, we *have* had NPCs assisting in the final battle in the past. If the crux if the problem is specifically how they assisted, that's mainly splitting hairs.

Also, please forgive me if I am misunderstanding what you have said. Sometimes I need things stated simply and bluntly for my brain to figure them out. It's just the way my neurodivergant brain works. So you're basically saying there's no real logical reason for WL to be able to break into a dimension and almost single-handedly take on a boss that the WoL and adventurer friends/other WoLs couldn't other than she's the star of the expansion? That's what I'm getting so please feel free to correct me if I am not getting it correct. The whole "being able to LB cause dynamis" part I get. It's more the "suddenly exponentially stronger than before with no real reason and can break into dimensions" part I don't get. If it's just cause she's the main character and nothing much else, then okay. Weird, but okay.

Again, sorry if I am misunderstanding you. I'm just not good at reading between lines and need things put more simply/bluntly for my brain to understand them properly.

No, I'm saying a logical reason is not needed. It's not a documentary, these aren't real people in a real world. It's a story written towards thematic and dramatic purpose. The reason WL assisted against the final boss is because the writers judged that action as narratively cohesive - that it was compatible with the game's pacing, that it was dramatically interesting and exciting, that it was justified by the narrative positioning of these characters, etc. Debating whether and how WL could "actually" do it is to just write fan fiction.

I agree that the drama focused towards Wuk Lamat focuses on the wrong angle, and pinpoints to something that misses the whole issue with Wuk Lamat. Which in my opinion at least is her overbearing screentime compared to other characters and the lack of interesting writing and dialogue and tackling her motivation and the whole pacing of the story for her arc being bungled. I always think she COULD have been a great character. While I thought the voice actress fumbled a bit from here to there, I could've just switched to Japanese and the issues with the character would still be there.

That's totally fair.