Wuk Lamat

[Auro_Seldaris]

Ardbert, Emet Selch and Zenos have all shown up at the eleventh hour against a final boss to give the player an essential assist. Nobody complains about them, though. People get angry when you point this out.

Ardbert: is your shard who rejoins with you. Not sure why it needs any more justification than that, but okay. Since you had not been fully rejoined with him yet, you weren't as strong as Emet-Selch expected you to be, hence his disappointment when you can't contain the light. You're not as powerful as he believed you to be. Ardbert doesn't literally jump intoo the fight and start clobbering the boss, as does Cat with Axe. Saying that it's ridiculous for Ardbert to show up and help is as ridiculous as being annoyed that your left hand has showed up to help your right hand.

Emet-Selch: is our friend, regardless of if he wants to admit it or not. He's part of The Squad. Elidibus is not. The Squad sticks together. His coming in to help us is the result of us fervently wishing for his help and Hydaelyn/Venat's last blessing aiding us. And even then, all he does is snap us back. He doesn't jump in and go beast mode Sorcerer of Eld on Elidibus, unlike Cat with Axe.

Zenos (and this is also going out to @Hallarem, sorry friend): all he does is bust in, be our hype man, and give us a ride. If you need a deeper explanation... Zenos finally realized there has to be a little give and take, he finally realized that to get what he wants, he has to give us what we want. Its not nonsensical... remember, in his own twisted way, we are his ONLY friend. He's here to help his only friend so he can maybe get what he wants in return. His heart grew three sizes that day, so to speak. It's still small, but its there. Also again, all he does is show up, talk, and give us a place to stand. He doesn't rip Endsinger's wings off and stuff them down her throat or something, unlike Cat with Axe.

[Auro_Seldaris]

Oh there's been plenty of complaining about the Zenos thing and how it made absolutely zero sense. Much like the Wuk Lamat one.

With Wuk Lamat it's a screentime issue, people not wanting to see her anymore and her power level being essentially "What the plot needs" instead of it making any sense.

With Zenos it's that he was clearly a cutting on the writing teams floor that they had to forcefully insert in, because they wanted to get rid of him for that "final fight" between us. So Krile got fired with the writers dumb dumb beam and the whole nation of Sharlayan too just went "Yeah, let him eat the mothercrystal and send him after the WoL to fly a real quick 5 minutes to the END OF THE UNIVERSE (still can't believe they did that) to help his MORTAL ENEMY"

Contextually, Shinryu is also the Eastern equivalent of Midgardsormr. It's never really fully stated, but it's implied that the "Great Serpent" of the Eastern myth of Shinryu is literally just Midgardsormr. They just didn't have a name for him. Different name, same being. Kind of like how many cultures on Earth have myths of a Great Flood. Most likely they are all talking about the same event. Anyway... Midgardsormr has the power to shatter dimensional barriers, make rifts in time and space, and does so by breaking into Omega's interdimensional rift to rescue us from our possible doom at the hands of Omega. As the Eastern interpretation of the same being, Shinryu has the exact same power. Also, during the Shinryu fight, he shatters a barrier and flies us to... somewhere else, conveniently creating a platform for us to fight him on at the same time.


No offense, Hallarem, but literally everything Shinryu does makes perfect sense given its powers as previously showed, and if you read the bit I wrote above about Zenos, everything Zenos does makes perfect sense given his own admittedly twisted views on friendship and cooperation. For people to complain about how Zenos just suddenly decides to help is just ignoring the very subtle changes in his personality. It wasn't a "quick 5 minute flight", it was Shinryu's own very clearly demonstrated ability to shatter rifts in time and space. If you're going to accuse Sharlayan of just "letting him eat the mothercrystal" just remember that they didn't really have any reaction to you going down into Heaven and killing off the only benevolent god we had around, either. Is it still "quickly wrapping up the Zenos plot"? Sure, but that happened with a lot of other things in Endwalker, too. It's not exclusively a Zenos problem.

Like I said, Hallarem, we're on the same page about a lot of things but... this I just can't agree with.

[Auro_Seldaris]

(someone said in this thread that no one has ever complained about Zenos. I think they must've been highly inebriated when they wrote it so I'll give them a pass)

As someone who actually liked Zenos...

Then someone in this thread clearly wasn't around for when Stormblood was live, because all anyone did was talk about how annyoing Lyse was and what a boring uninteresting character Zenos was.

And they also must not have been around for when Endwalker was live, becuase all anyone did was complain about how annoyingly nihilistic Hermes A. Fandaniel was, and how they hated that Zenos was back and were glad at his apparent final death.

[Striker44]

The post-DT quests have been just as terrible. Absolutely horrid writing from this team, it's unbelievable. Just as a singular example, I find it hard to believe that the kid (the "king" of Tural or whatever. The turtle) is the smartest person in the room. And the child catgirl in the raid quests? With the advanced understanding of the disease we just learned existed? Give me a break. They're trying to get me to suspend my disbelief over an endless chasm.

It's amazing how different people can have different opinions! For example, I've been enjoying both the 7.0 MSQ and the patches since. It's perfectly fine to feel the opposite way and not like them - but turning it into vitriolic personal attacks at the dev team because you have a different opinion is...well, I'll just say I hope you're not someone who also wonders why this forum doesn't get taken seriously. Also, for the record, the "little sibling is a whiz kid" trope has existed since before any of us were born.

Kinda weird how they have taken a "backround role" and we still drag them along with us everywhere.

Background characters by their nature still exist...they're not the main focus anymore, but it's not weird at all for them to still be there.

Kinda weird how Krile was supposed to have a major role in the expansion, but never got her due and was constantly muscled out of scenes by Wuk Lamat

I was expecting a bit more for Krile, too, but we still got plenty and Wuk Lumat wasn't "muscling her out" of anything.

Kinda weird how these "new characters" were dominated by one character getting all the spotlight

Also not weird at all to have a bunch of new characters but one of them in particular getting the "spotlight."

Holy moly the echo chamber you live in is crazy. I've played The Interphos over 100 times in PF and most I would see people react with is "WUK LAMAT COMES IN WITH THE STEEL CHAIR" or say "SPEEEN". Either your entire group of friends and FC desperately need to touch grass if you're reacting like this over a cool video game cutscene or you're making this shit up for some reason and idk which is weirder.

This. Notice how the person you're responding to only seems to do it with their own friend group or FC, where people are by nature more likely to have similar opinions on things.

Don't act like this is some hive mind and everyone should be a brainless barking seal, clapping for whatever drivel Yoshida serves. YOU are the one who needs to touch grass and consider that not everyone will have the same opinion or feelings.

This response, on the other hand, makes absolutely no sense (though the vitriol and personal attacks are par for the course with the negative echo chamber around here). The person you're responding to never said anything like that, just pointed out that they have had a different experience. They also do the content with a wide variety of different groups, while the person they were responding to played only with their friend group/FC. One of those is going to give you a better perspective on the larger community. But way to put words into someone's mouth so you could personally attack them since apparently you couldn't refute their point.

We've never had any Scions help during the actual final battle so ANY of them actually assisting in a final battle would have been weird to me.

(All of the Scions help us in the EW battle - the whole shield thing protecting us from the second LB...)

[Amariel34]

No, I'm saying a logical reason is not needed. It's not a documentary, these aren't real people in a real world. It's a story written towards thematic and dramatic purpose. The reason WL assisted against the final boss is because the writers judged that action as narratively cohesive - that it was compatible with the game's pacing, that it was dramatically interesting and exciting, that it was justified by the narrative positioning of these characters, etc. Debating whether and how WL could "actually" do it is to just write fan fiction.

I think I get what you're saying. Or at least the gist of it. Thank you for taking the time to explain it more clearly for me. Most people get annoyed when I ask them to clarify it more simply for me. I hope you have a wonderful day.

[All_Nonsense]

"Um guys, where is le downvote button?"

Bro just hit me with the "erm, what the scallop. Don't be mean!" and then tries to justify bad writing by claiming it's an ancient esoteric technique from ancient times. Your strange moral highground isn't going to assist you much here. Whether people are mean or not with their feedback isn't our problem to deal with. It's the billion dollar company's problem to deal with while they're being paid hundreds of millions of dollars. If they can't handle a little hard sentiment then they're not cut out for this whole "running a business thing." I don't care if the "kid smarter than even god himself" trope was successful in the Astro Boy days, it's not going to hit in today's times because the people playing the game aren't 80......yet. You'd be lucky to find someone who even wants a kid character to be in the same room as their WoL - most people don't like kids these days. It's not a huge revelation either. This is basic common sense for a non-lazy writer to perceive and to avoid. But then, we didn't really get any compelling writing this expansion either. Writing almost as lazy as the arguments in defense of it.

[Exmo]

I think I get what you're saying. Or at least the gist of it. Thank you for taking the time to explain it more clearly for me. Most people get annoyed when I ask them to clarify it more simply for me. I hope you have a wonderful day.

You're welcome, I'm happy to clarify when people are pleasant to chat with. Good day to you too.

@Striker44, those are known trolls, I'd save my breath if I were you.

[Aniise]

Truly, this must be the Wukest Lamat of all time.

Coming back to the main topic, I just hope they make her leave already. I can't wait for the moment we say goodbye forever to Llama Tea. No matter how they get rid of her, just...get rid of her.

Also, comparing any other character that helped us out during a trial to her (and with helped us out, I mean helped us out, not broke through a barrier to rip the boss apart in front of our eyes) hurts to read and almost borders on being offensive. The writing of this scene was just bad. There is no comparison, nothing to justify it. And every time I get thrown into this trial, I sigh. Because I have to watch the ridiculous cutscene again.

[Shistar]

I would drop this games story hard if they tried to drag Sphene along as a scion. We don't need anymore characters lumped into the scions, especially not one as boring and pointless as Sphene.

That's just your opinion. I like her enough.
I never said anything about her becoming a Scion, there's technically no Scions anymore, I'd just like her to be around for longer than she'll realistically be with us because I'd like to see her character evolve into something deeper like Zero with her mini-arc.

[Oizen]

I liken her presence to Jar Jar Binks in most scenes.