On this day a year ago, Plunge was taken from us (and other Job Identity)

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Simply pointed out that the exact math you clarified increases that by exactly the amount I stated.
"Had" = 10s CD on Onslaught, at potency cost, and 10s on Gyoten, also at potency loss. 5s, no-cost Gyoten is quite recent.

1.) Gyoten for a long time has not been a potency loss since they have been matching potency-per-gauge (PPG) with Shinten. Gyoten also still costs 10 kenki, all they did was reduce the CD from 10s to 5s - i.e. made it more available
2.) Onslaught was a situational damage loss and on occasion even a damage gain vs non-IR Fell Cleave, the potency-per-gauge difference I did the math a long time ago, feel free to check it.



Basically it boils down to double-digit potency differences over the course of a fight, which in comparison to potency/minute or potency/10min is actually a tiny difference.

And at 12 per minute (or 24 if counting Yaten) movement skills per minute, SAM's mobility is, yes, excessive. DRG, in 2nd place, has just 3 or 5 movement skills per minute, only 2 of them instant, with WAR in 3rd place with 3, with the vast majority having 2. That said, SAM is also the also the only job without multiple charges on its movement skills. Why would we want to copy the OP outlier? That doesn't sound any more reasonable than having tank sustain all copy WAR at its most broken.

Which means that capacity should probably be nerfed, not buffed, relative to the demands of encounters. Having effectively infinite gap-closing devalues the likes of Req phases, Yaten, Reply of Wind, etc., because they just render each other redundant.

Again, why buff what is already too much?

I wouldn't go for a copy of the outlier, as you respond below you know I have more than one way to go about things, but I'm just pointing out that your argument of "increasing availability of gap closers/mobility tools will likely lead to a change to encounter design where all jobs need to be given equivalents or similar" (that's how I understood it) doesn't hold a lot of water because we already *have* cases of precedence where one job or another has a big advantage in mobility/range over others, yet encounter design and by proxy job design isn't being flipped on its head because of it.

WAR's current Onslaught is also more or less just 2 x Onslaught per minute in recharges, giving a bit of leeway before the 2min burst where you want to throw in the odd Onslaught to prevent overcap - it's not that much more mobile, but I'm not gonna die on this hill tbh.

Nerfing capacity and neutering jobs that are outliers is exactly why we have the flavourless job design that we have evolved into now ever since the Shadowbringers design flip. Having 1-3 jobs better at dashes while others be better at ranged attacks (or mobile casting in terms of Casters/Healers) isn't something that should be neutered, but instead embraced.

I asked what the point was of having a 1-charge Plunge that therefore would actually need to be used on CD and a 1-charge Shadowslip -- which seems to me the worst of both worlds. You had no examples remotely like adding "defensive, restorative, or situational" benefits in what I quoted and critiqued, only a suggestion for yet more gap-closing per minute.I'm clearly fine with bundling in more effects. Such has nothing to do with what I was critiquing.

I mean I just argued that such gives harmless increase in button-density and flavor:

You're incorrect on that one - I did give example referencing the PvP DRK equivalent of Plunge. You literally responded to it.

[...]"In all seriousness - why is nobody considering "what if we had both"? Shadowstride on say a 30-45s CD, purely there for mobility on demand and Plunge with damage and mechanically meaningful effects like PvP DRK has it?[...]

That said, my suggestion to have both of them comes from trying to appease both the side that "dashes shouldn't do damage, they should be for utility", hence keeping Shadowstride for a pure mobility tool but also the side that wants Plunge back, which is a satisfying button visually but could be made more interesting. The exact numbers to tweak and settling for how much mobility DRK is supposed to have is a completely different ballgame that I haven't explored - all I am stating is that we should NOT have current Shadowstride + 6.5 Plunge at the exact same time.