#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kozh]

Wow where did the apparent concern over me being in a toxic relationship from the previous post go lmao.

I think it's best to ignore him tbh, he's just a troll.

[Supersnow845]

I’d just like anyone to actually answer aravell’s question

If you personally are satisfied with healers or otherwise believe people’s problems with healers amount to not doing savage then what is your opinion about how boring filler is and why is needs to be like that

People say all classes are boring in casual content but would you be happy if your filler rotation was like a healers? Like do you really draw no distinction between how your class feels to play in casual content and how a healer feels to play in casual content? And if you really don’t is your opinion on savage being a fix even about class design or more so encounter design being better?

[ForsakenRoe]

I’d just like anyone to actually answer aravell’s question

If you personally are satisfied with healers or otherwise believe people’s problems with healers amount to not doing savage then what is your opinion about how boring filler is and why is needs to be like that

People say all classes are boring in casual content but would you be happy if your filler rotation was like a healers? Like do you really draw no distinction between how your class feels to play in casual content and how a healer feels to play in casual content? And if you really don’t is your opinion on savage being a fix even about class design or more so encounter design being better?

Let's take an example change. WHM gets given a new instantcast GCD attack, Water (later becoming Banish), with a 15s CD. It always deals 30p more damage than Stone/Glare. When Stone levels up, it does too, and because Glare3 is 340p at max level (currently), this means that Banish 3 would be 370p at max level in the hypothetical.

With that example in mind, I would rather the question being asked be like... 'Say that change goes live. How does this negatively affect your gameplay?' Because every time I've seen someone try to posit that it'd negatively affect the game to have such a change, it's very easy to point out that 'there are multiple ways to address the concerns being raised, such that it's not a problem'. More damage buttons means 'more potential for the rotation to be performed incorrectly, causing enrage'? Tune the potency such that the new buttons are a damage gain, but a very small gain such that missing uses doesn't cause problems for the casual player. In the above example, if a player ignores Banish as a button entirely, they're going to presumably be filling that GCD space with a Glare instead. As such, ignoring the new button entirely is not a damage loss of 370p per 15s, but instead 30p per 15s (because they lose a Banish, but gain a Glare). And that means that ignoring the new button incurs the same damage penalty per 2min (30 x 8 = 240p), as dropping just 3 ticks (3 x 80 = 240p) of the current Dia

[klu]

I think it's best to ignore him tbh, he's just a troll.

Every single person who doesn't agree with you and won't coddle your opinion whilst disagreeing is, right bud?

[klu]

My dude, you are the definition of all bark and no bite. None of your actions reflect anything you vomit in these forums. The self delusion and virtue signaling some people do here is pretty damn funny.

A company whose sole purpose is to make a profit will NEVER care about a bunch of noisy people as long as their purse is still fattening up and secured. Hit them where it matters, and then you will see action.

They REALLY want to believe it too.
MMO forums are already a cesspool of unpleasable whining, but "strike" threads have to take the cake for self-important nonsense.

This thread and its clones have died multiple times, and they just cant stand that this isn't the hill everyone else wants to die on.

This thread and its nonexistent interaction with the course that the devs decide to take become an element of some of the posters personalities, and thats an incredibly sad indictment of the times.

If a thousand page thread dies, let. it. die. You are not talking to the devs. You will never talk to the devs. They do. Not. Care. What. You. Think.

Vote with your wallet and acknowledge that forums are always in place to segregate the whiny parts of the player base into one jar. They are NOT and never will be places rhe devs wander into for advice.

Would you? Seriously? Would you come HERE for advice on an MMO you wanted to develop?

"Of COURSE you wouldnt!"
-Emet Selch

[Supersnow845]

Every single person who doesn't agree with you and won't coddle your opinion whilst disagreeing is, right bud?

No but people who won’t substantiate their opinion or who’s entire contribution to multiple threads is acting like the forum police could certainly be described as such

They REALLY want to believe it too.
MMO forums are already a cesspool of unpleasable whining, but "strike" threads have to take the cake for self-important nonsense.

This thread and its clones have died multiple times, and they just cant stand that this isn't the hill everyone else wants to die on.

This thread and its nonexistent interaction with the course that the devs decide to take become an element of some of the posters personalities, and thats an incredibly sad indictment of the times.

If a thousand page thread dies, let. it. die. You are not talking to the devs. You will never talk to the devs. They do. Not. Care. What. You. Think.

Vote with your wallet and acknowledge that forums are always in place to segregate the whiny parts of the player base into one jar. They are NOT and never will be places rhe devs wander into for advice.

Would you? Seriously? Would you come HERE for advice on an MMO you wanted to develop?

"Of COURSE you wouldnt!"
-Emet Selch

Okay so if the forums are so useless why do you take time out of your day to try to police them because we are “gunking them up”. If they are useless you wouldn’t care

If they are so useless let us shout into a void, wasting your time policing the “box for noisy whiners” makes you look even worse than us

[klu]

No but people who won’t substantiate their opinion or who’s entire contribution to multiple threads is acting like the forum police could certainly be described as such



Okay so if the forums are so useless why do you take time out of your day to try to police them because we are “gunking them up”. If they are useless you wouldn’t care

If they are so useless let us shout into a void, wasting your time policing the “box for noisy whiners” makes you look even worse than us

*throws hands up*
I dont know, man. You're not wrong. "Complaining about complainers" and all that, I know.

Have you ever seen a kid, a peer, or a sibling just bullheadedly being stupid, and sometimes you want to shake them and hit them with that Frieza?

"Stop being stupid!"

It isn't because you hate them or enjoy picking on them. Far from it, in fact. You remember being them, you remember wasting time or being stupid, and you feel so cringe and embarrassed from the memory that you want to make THEM stop doing it, to save them?

Its asinine that a thread runs its natural course, and some bored nimnal necros it for the *express purpose* of saying "not on my watch". That's your entire contribution. Seriously?

Or someone opens a whole new thread to directly address the predecessor thread. Its narcissistic beyond all common sense, and you think people can't see that you're so starved for attention that you just *cant* use the existing thread?

Its annoying. Its masturbatory nonsense. And watching you do it makes me want to yell "You're better than that."

[Supersnow845]

Okay I’m going to back away slowly and cautiously

[Saraide]

*throws hands up*
I dont know, man. You're not wrong. "Complaining about complainers" and all that, I know.

Have you ever seen a kid, a peer, or a sibling just bullheadedly being stupid, and sometimes you want to shake them and hit them with that Frieza?

"Stop being stupid!"

It isn't because you hate them or enjoy picking on them. Far from it, in fact. You remember being them, you remember wasting time or being stupid, and you feel so cringe and embarrassed from the memory that you want to make THEM stop doing it, to save them?

Its asinine that a thread runs its natural course, and some bored nimnal necros it for the *express purpose* of saying "not on my watch". That's your entire contribution. Seriously?

Or someone opens a whole new thread to directly address the predecessor thread. Its narcissistic beyond all common sense, and you think people can't see that you're so starved for attention that you just *cant* use the existing thread?

Its annoying. Its masturbatory nonsense. And watching you do it makes me want to yell "You're better than that."

Please dont project your unresolved childhood trauma on the rest of us.

[ForsakenRoe]

Vote with your wallet and acknowledge that forums are always in place to segregate the whiny parts of the player base into one jar. They are NOT and never will be places rhe devs wander into for advice.

Would you? Seriously? Would you come HERE for advice on an MMO you wanted to develop?

"Of COURSE you wouldnt!"
-Emet Selch

The Forked Tower feedback got collected from somewhere, surely? I would imagine that the best place to find feedback regarding an addition to FFXIV's content, is the FFXIV forums. Whether the EN forums specifically get looked at, or if it's just the JP forums that the devs ever look at, is up for debate.

Additionally, several ping-related issues got addressed over the course of the game's lifespan (eventually). Ping issues which haven't actually been issues for Japan, as their geography means that ping issues don't pop up nearly as often for them. For example, MCH's Wildfire/Hypercharge, or Inner Release/Delerium, being converted from 'do as many GCDs as you can within X seconds (and sometimes meld Skillspeed to make sure you get the last one in), to 'you have X stacks, each gets spent on one attack'. Living Dead, and it 'feeling bad to remove Walking Dead as an AST/SCH compared to being a WHM' was raised as an issue for a long time in the EN forums specifically, and eventually in the 6.x series it got changes.

WOW is a good example of the players and developers working together, communicating, to come up with a better design. When the some of the Hero Talent trees this expansion were revealed, people pointed out that the issues with some of the talents, from numerical balance issues, to 'this will feel like crap to play around' gameplay feel issues, and Blizzard took that feedback and made changes. If it weren't for 'developers listen to feedback from forums/reddit/etc.', we'd still have janky talent trees where some trees feel horrible to play around, some talents just don't feel impactful, and some are an active detriment to your DPS if you interact with them due to being undertuned. Also, the return of Talent Trees at all, in Dragonflight, was due to player feedback about how bland and boring the 'pick one of these three' Talent system from MOP-SL was

Another example is OSRS. A lot of suggestions on the subreddit (the official forums closed down kinda recently) get the attention of the devs, and implemented. Rather notably, when the first land expansion to the game came out, it looked like this. A reddit user posted a picture of a redesign for the landmass which gained a ton of traction, and the devs said 'hey that is pretty cool', and collaborated with him to bring the suggestion to life. After several further content updates in the years since, it now looks like this, with a further landmass added to the south. If it weren't for 'developers listen to feedback from forums/reddit/etc.', we'd still have the godawful first version.

Point is, FFXIV is not 'the rule' when it comes to taking feedback (or not, as it sometimes feels is the case), nor is it necessarily 'the exception'. Maybe moreso a cultural thing for JP based companies, I'd expect

The point of that Emet Selch quote is that, while he seemed rather certain at the time that we wouldn't 'sacrifice half our number so that the rest may survive', the populace of the planet DID sacrifice themselves (in the doomed timeline), several generations in fact, working towards a goal they would never see the fruits of: sending Graha back in time to set in motion events that would prevent the 8th Calamity. He was so sure of himself and his way of doing things being 'the only way' that he closed his mind to the possibility that there's alternative paths forward, which does seem to mirror how the devs often seem to get into this mentality of 'this is the way we're going to do it, and there is surely no alternative way that it could have been done'. See also: BLU. Or their now THREE attempts to make a Chemist job. I expect that the upcoming Beastmaster will suffer a similar fate

Of course, SE doesn't have to listen to us forum void-yellers. And chances are they won't, sure. But the population of the game is decreasing steadily, so they're going to have to do something that breaks the formula. 'Still waters grow stagnant', and stagnation is the death of live service games. And if they want to address the reason that people are leaving, surely it'd be a good idea to... see what people are saying about the game, rather than changing stuff randomly, and hoping it happens to work?

But before we start asking about whether SE should listen to the forums or not, I think it'd be more prudent to start with the most basic of the basics:

'For 8.0, can they please have the Healer kits be designed by a dedicated Healer Designer'?