Almost into 7.3, what you think about the *improved* encounter design?

[Raim]

Their idea of improved encounter designs was apparently throwing in some adds and calling it a day. Wheres the platforming? Moving objects like in HW dungeons? Make us do completely silly mechanics, regardless of uptime. Mechanics don't need to be harder they just need to be more diverse and interesting.

[Altina_Orion]

That's my main gripe with dungeons.
I don't need them to be harder, I need them to actually be engaging.
I want an actual dungeon with varied objectives and environments, not a hallway simulator that only tests if I know where my W key is.

I actually don't agree

Dungeons with objectives and non-linear paths get boiled down to optimal paths after a day or two. It's really not as engaging as it seems (try playing WoW and see). What we need is to have square demand us use our kit more (stuns, interrupts, etc) and have to deal with actual mechanics from trash mobs. Also, Mythic+ please.

[MisterNublet]

Did it actually come out with 7.2? I thought it was pushed back until 7.4 because nothing meaningful was changed. The 6 mechanics they love to regurgitate everywhere seemed a little faster though.

[Kaurhz]

Given the trend...

You'll still be waiting for the improved encounter design well into 9.0.

[Absurdity]

I actually don't agree

Dungeons with objectives and non-linear paths get boiled down to optimal paths after a day or two. It's really not as engaging as it seems (try playing WoW and see). What we need is to have square demand us use our kit more (stuns, interrupts, etc) and have to deal with actual mechanics from trash mobs. Also, Mythic+ please.

I don't consider this a valid argument.
People will optimize the fun out of everything, especially in our current age of easily accessible information. That doesn't mean you just give up and design your content around them, because all you've now achieved is that you made it stale and boring for everyone.

We're seeing it with dungeons, we've seen it with Endwalker's giant hitboxes because "optimized players have full uptime anyway" and we see it with the current job design.

I know WoW has this problem with it's dungeons, the way Mythic+ works is the exact reason why it's been exacerbated. Of course you will use the most optimal route when you have to finish within a strict time limit.

[Daralii]

I don't consider this a valid argument.
People will optimize the fun out of everything, especially in our current age of easily accessible information. That doesn't mean you just give up and design your content around them, because all you've now achieved is that you made it stale and boring for everyone.

We're seeing it with dungeons, we've seen it with Endwalker's giant hitboxes because "optimized players have full uptime anyway" and we see it with the current job design.

I know WoW has this problem with it's dungeons, the way Mythic+ works is the exact reason why it's been exacerbated. Of course you will use the most optimal route when you have to finish within a strict time limit.

The trash mobs in WoW's dungeons also have actual mechanics. Even if it's mostly interrupts, dispels, and purges, it's at least more than modern XIV has.

[BigCheez]

I actually don't agree

Dungeons with objectives and non-linear paths get boiled down to optimal paths after a day or two. It's really not as engaging as it seems (try playing WoW and see). What we need is to have square demand us use our kit more (stuns, interrupts, etc) and have to deal with actual mechanics from trash mobs. Also, Mythic+ please.

The "after a day or two" here is very important. Instead of having dungeons that you can explore and figure out on your first couple of playthroughs we have dungeons that aren't even fun the first time you run them.

I agree that we also need more interesting trash with some mechanics, CC and interrupts though.

[Absurdity]

The trash mobs in WoW's dungeons also have actual mechanics. Even if it's mostly interrupts, dispels, and purges, it's at least more than modern XIV has.

Trash in WoW has always been significantly more lethal. And while nowadays the mechanics they have can mostly be ignored on lower difficulties, you just AoE them down like we do here, but reach a certain keystone level in M+ and pulling the wrong packs together will end you quickly.

I agree that we also need more interesting trash with some mechanics, CC and interrupts though.

This is however not just an issue limited to dungeons.
Our current job kits are simply incapable of dealing with more varied/interesting mechanics.

[fulminating]

I am relatively certain the twinning has several interrupts - surplus kamilya, the self-buffing quadrupeds, maybe the kettles at the end too? I think heroes’ gauntlet also had interrupts on the white mage and maybe paladins. Since then, I’m struggling to think of any.

Has it really been two expansions?

[RaionKansen]

I don't think people want dungeons to be difficult (well okay personally I want them to be harder, but if they do that some people will go riot), they want jobs to be fun again so that dungeons arent a boring slog. Oh and maybe remove the stale trash mob x2 >> boss formula.

Jobs being fun is complex and subjective. Most people are just burnt out on the game in general.
When you understand jobs and optimization on a fundamental level, every job is basically the same anyways.

Its why when you ask people to articulate what would make jobs fun again they just ask for more GCDs or they want more debuffs/buffs to juggle, but that ultimately changes nothing about the jobs.

If you really want to make the jobs "fun" you have to stack layers upon layers of procs so that there's constant decision making for the most opitmal DPS. WoW had this for a long time around Legion through BFA, but then the masses complain about the game being too difficult/confusing.

They could bring wall to walls back, but I don't know what people are looking for aside from that that isnt already present unless you're looking for unique minigames or something in dungeon encounters.

Every time they move from the mob x2 & >> boss formula, people complain and ask why they didnt just do what they always did because people dont like wasting time on more pulls