Almost into 7.3, what you think about the *improved* encounter design?

[Absurdity]

I don't think people want dungeons to be difficult (well okay personally I want them to be harder, but if they do that some people will go riot), they want jobs to be fun again so that dungeons arent a boring slog. Oh and maybe remove the stale trash mob x2 >> boss formula.

That's my main gripe with dungeons.
I don't need them to be harder, I need them to actually be engaging.
I want an actual dungeon with varied objectives and environments (not the wallpaper somewhere in the background), not a hallway simulator that only tests if I know where my W key is.

[Altina_Orion]

That's my main gripe with dungeons.
I don't need them to be harder, I need them to actually be engaging.
I want an actual dungeon with varied objectives and environments, not a hallway simulator that only tests if I know where my W key is.

I actually don't agree

Dungeons with objectives and non-linear paths get boiled down to optimal paths after a day or two. It's really not as engaging as it seems (try playing WoW and see). What we need is to have square demand us use our kit more (stuns, interrupts, etc) and have to deal with actual mechanics from trash mobs. Also, Mythic+ please.

[Absurdity]

I actually don't agree

Dungeons with objectives and non-linear paths get boiled down to optimal paths after a day or two. It's really not as engaging as it seems (try playing WoW and see). What we need is to have square demand us use our kit more (stuns, interrupts, etc) and have to deal with actual mechanics from trash mobs. Also, Mythic+ please.

I don't consider this a valid argument.
People will optimize the fun out of everything, especially in our current age of easily accessible information. That doesn't mean you just give up and design your content around them, because all you've now achieved is that you made it stale and boring for everyone.

We're seeing it with dungeons, we've seen it with Endwalker's giant hitboxes because "optimized players have full uptime anyway" and we see it with the current job design.

I know WoW has this problem with it's dungeons, the way Mythic+ works is the exact reason why it's been exacerbated. Of course you will use the most optimal route when you have to finish within a strict time limit.

[Daralii]

I don't consider this a valid argument.
People will optimize the fun out of everything, especially in our current age of easily accessible information. That doesn't mean you just give up and design your content around them, because all you've now achieved is that you made it stale and boring for everyone.

We're seeing it with dungeons, we've seen it with Endwalker's giant hitboxes because "optimized players have full uptime anyway" and we see it with the current job design.

I know WoW has this problem with it's dungeons, the way Mythic+ works is the exact reason why it's been exacerbated. Of course you will use the most optimal route when you have to finish within a strict time limit.

The trash mobs in WoW's dungeons also have actual mechanics. Even if it's mostly interrupts, dispels, and purges, it's at least more than modern XIV has.

[Absurdity]

The trash mobs in WoW's dungeons also have actual mechanics. Even if it's mostly interrupts, dispels, and purges, it's at least more than modern XIV has.

Trash in WoW has always been significantly more lethal. And while nowadays the mechanics they have can mostly be ignored on lower difficulties, you just AoE them down like we do here, but reach a certain keystone level in M+ and pulling the wrong packs together will end you quickly.

I agree that we also need more interesting trash with some mechanics, CC and interrupts though.

This is however not just an issue limited to dungeons.
Our current job kits are simply incapable of dealing with more varied/interesting mechanics.

[BigCheez]

I actually don't agree

Dungeons with objectives and non-linear paths get boiled down to optimal paths after a day or two. It's really not as engaging as it seems (try playing WoW and see). What we need is to have square demand us use our kit more (stuns, interrupts, etc) and have to deal with actual mechanics from trash mobs. Also, Mythic+ please.

The "after a day or two" here is very important. Instead of having dungeons that you can explore and figure out on your first couple of playthroughs we have dungeons that aren't even fun the first time you run them.

I agree that we also need more interesting trash with some mechanics, CC and interrupts though.