Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

[RuriStone]

A kill party in PF is for people looking to get their first clear. Anyone can join those. It's not a reclear party.

This is exactly the point. Unlike PF, there are no protections for players and organisers trying to do serious runs of Forked Tower. 48 people are entirely reliant on the manners and courtesy of the other players populating the instance. These players would never naturally enter the tower without these organised groups being there and it is in nobody's interest for them to disrupt the run.

If you went into the middle of an open public field with a picnic basket and the 20 or so people playing a game of football on that field that you are now wedged between approached you and politely asked you to leave, would they be rude? Would you be discourteous? The field is open and accessible to the public, after all. You have just as much a right to be there as they do - if they have a problem they should just take it up with the local authority.

This is my point the content is designed differently that's why I wasn't sure why you brought it up. Forked tower is designed so that random players can join in therefore it's not discourteous to just play the game.

In your analogy you wouldn't be someone with a picnic basket you'd also be a football player you just wouldn't be in the team already playing that for some reason got together beforehand to play in a public event however if this game was advertised as a public game of football where anyone could come join in then the players already there would be really rude to exclude people on the basis they didn't plan with them beforehand and yes that should be taken up with the local authority who here would be Square Enix (hence suggestions of reporting this anti community behaviour).

You can try to make out like level 100 players with access to OC and who earn access to forked tower have no clue what they're doing or how to play this content all you like but Square designed this content this way for a reason so unless they change that it's how it is.

[Kasumii]

Which circles back to the original problem the so called “casuals” side of this discussion never has an answer for

If this content isn’t done by discords it’s done by nobody. Which is ultimately square enix’s awful design for the entry conditions

Like short of square completely redesigning it what do you want the discords to do? Anyone feel free to chime in here, what do you want the discords to do? They are filling a niche that makes this content possible. If your answer is “it shouldn’t need discord” then congrats your problem isn’t with the discords it’s with square.

Every person who joins in place of an organised discord participant lowers chance of success. As has been shown OP as an example died because they didn’t know a mechanic and almost killed others by blowing up traps. What else can the discords do? If you don’t want deal with them at all then again the problem is square.

Like people here acting like the discords are evil and the problem I have no idea how you want to solve this content

The content itself should not exist in its current iteration. Remove it from the instance and make it like DRS. All these people are asking from the discords is that the discords treat them like fellow players. Not like garbage they can TK at the start of the run and never revive. Discord groups wouldnt even have the reputation of being so evil if this behaviour didnt happen in the first place.

Yes its frustrating. Yes we all know Square is to blame. But telling randoms to not join and threaten them to not be revived and ignored isnt helping anyone. Why dont the discord groups try to make the best of the situation instead if it happens? Why do they immediately go hostile and all "you dont belong here"?

[Supersnow845]

The content itself should not exist in its current iteration. Remove it from the instance and make it like DRS. All these people are asking from the discords is that the discords treat them like fellow players. Not like garbage they can TK at the start of the run and never revive. Discord groups wouldnt even have the reputation of being so evil if this behaviour didnt happen in the first place.

Yes its frustrating. Yes we all know Square is to blame. But telling randoms to not join and threaten them to not be revived and ignored isnt helping anyone. Why dont the discord groups try to make the best of the situation instead if it happens? Why do they immediately go hostile and all "you dont belong here"?

Sure make it like DRS. Regardless that isn’t a problem anyone besides square can fix and screaming at the discords won’t help there

Because as was clarified later the discord who ran the run OP ran did extend a hand and tried to find out what jobs they had and slot them in. OP was silent and then proceeded to blow up traps killing others

Then the “tankbuster designed to assassinate the OP” was a cleave they stood in front of and died to that they attempted to communicate was a cleave

What more did you want the discord to do. The person wasn’t communicating, was just barely shy of running around like a headless chicken and was getting other people killed. Where does OP’s right go the content end when they are hurting other peoples chances of clearing the content?

[Neclord]

This is my point the content is designed differently that's why I wasn't sure why you brought it up. Forked tower is designed so that random players can join in therefore it's not discourteous to just play the game.

In your analogy you wouldn't be someone with a picnic basket you'd also be a football player you just wouldn't be in the team already playing that for some reason got together beforehand to play in a public event however if this game was advertised as a public game of football where anyone could come join in then the players already there would be really rude to exclude people on the basis they didn't plan with them beforehand and yes that should be taken up with the local authority who here would be Square Enix (hence suggestions of reporting this anti community behaviour).

You can try to make out like level 100 players with access to OC and who earn access to forked tower have no clue what they're doing or how to play this content all you like but Square designed this content this way for a reason so unless they change that it's how it is.

Goodness gracious. I dread to think what diabolical behaviour you get up to in public if the only thing regulating your behaviour is what the letter of the law says. Do you leave shopping trolleys out in the middle of the car park as well?

[Kasumii]

Sure make it like DRS. Regardless that isn’t a problem anyone besides square can fix and screaming at the discords won’t help there

Because as was clarified later the discord who ran the run OP ran did extend a hand and tried to find out what jobs they had and slot them in. OP was silent and then proceeded to blow up traps killing others

Then the “tankbuster designed to assassinate the OP” was a cleave they stood in front of and died to that they attempted to communicate was a cleave

What more did you want the discord to do. The person wasn’t communicating, was just barely shy of running around like a headless chicken and was getting other people killed. Where does OP’s right go the content end when they are hurting other peoples chances of clearing the content?

Is your definition of extending a hand them saying "lol we let you stay dead"?

And the answer is actually straightforward like it or not, again just look at ToS.

It ends when OP does it maliciously and I cannot see any malicious intent behind OPs actions. It couldve been a mistake, they werent warned etc etc. As long as the randoms have no malicious intent (and joining a content the way the devs intended to is not malicious. Being told not to join is malicious as Ive pointed out numerous times). Simple as.

There really should not even be a discussion. Premades need to learn to go with the flow, either abandon the run altogether and look for a new instance if youre not comfortable with a random joining or try your best with the random in your party. I fail to see the issue.

Edit:

Its also funny that now suddenly the narrative shifted and somehow (after telling OP to piss off and they wont get revived) the discord now reached out? idk this all smells very fishy and yes I do have a very obvious hate-bias towards raiders/content creators I can admit that much but it sounds like some half baked stuff thats been made up to make the streamer OP was allegedly "sniping" look better. I dont know.

If the facts are that the people in FT reached out and tried to communicate with OP (which I cant see mentioned anywhere) and tried to help them and then OP out of spite for whatever reason blew up half the team then sure. Report em and move on. But I have no reason to think OP did anything maliciously and was just doing the content to the best of their ability.


Either way at least we agree that the fault is with square and that FT has managed to drive an even worse wedge between the playerbase. Heres hoping some of it gets adressed in the Live Letter.

[RuriStone]

Goodness gracious. I dread to think what diabolical behaviour you get up to in public if the only thing regulating your behaviour is what the letter of the law says. Do you leave shopping trolleys out in the middle of the car park as well?

social/society runs on rules. you cant be societal without rules because that is a defining factor of society

[Neclord]

social/society runs on rules. you cant be societal without rules because that is a defining factor of society

There is more to society than rules. We are not robots. We are human beings. There is also basic human courtesy. This would involve having the social antenna to recognise if a group is occupying a space with a clear objective/purpose.

In the case of our back and forth. Yes, it would be disruptive to set up a picnic in the middle of the field where 20 people are playing football - even if the letter of the law grants you the right to do so.

I'd recommend against engaging in the most law-abiding disruptive behaviour humanly possible in IRL public spaces though. You'd have more than rogue tankbusters and polite requests to leave to worry about.

[Aravell]

And you're letting your own bias show by trying to act like toxic hardcore players aren't a thing

I'm not showing bias because I didn't even mention hardcore players. I'm pointing out that there's a lot of people who are so heavily biased towards hating raiders that they cannot stand anything that shows them even in a neutral light, they have to paint raiders as evil, no matter what. These people very obviously exist and it's a choice they make.

I also like the part where you expect said casuals to somehow feel sorry for "the other side" when said other side has been nothing but hostile for years, constantly blaming them for everything that goes wrong in this game

You're ignoring the part where self-proclaimed casuals have also been blaming those "toxic evil raiders" for years on end now, but sure.

That doesn't sound like "kindness" so much as "coercion" given the implication that they still let the random die (and may or may not have caused it to happen themselves) and THEN want to "negotiate" by leveraging de-leveling over their head as a way to make them beg for a raise and then leave.

This is your personal interpretation because you believe that the organised group is being malicious. Raid leaders are merely offering them a choice, if they accept, they get raised, if they don't accept, they don't get a raise to prevent future problems in the raid. It's simply just making sure a single person doesn't waste the time of 47 other people through a very preventable mistake.

"I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group."

Well, there's the problem, the random isn't in the group, they are objectively a solo player because they are not in a party. If a solo player can report people for not healing/raising them, then anyone can go die to an AoE in a hunt train and report every single healer there.

[YovelaLindswood]

Goodness gracious. I dread to think what diabolical behaviour you get up to in public if the only thing regulating your behaviour is what the letter of the law says. Do you leave shopping trolleys out in the middle of the car park as well?

Lmao I know I do. I also leave things on grocery store shelves slightly askew. Even more diabolically When someone tells me to enjoy my meal I say thanks you too. They don't even have a meal to enjoy Muahahahahahahahaha!!!

[AvoSturmfaust]

It is actually objectively harrasment according to the games ToS I do not get why you cannot understand this.

""・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.
(Except when in accordance with rules set by an administrator such as a Free Company Master)
Key Points
It is prohibited to make statements such as the following examples to try to kick someone from the party, content, community, etc. as if they are not qualified to participate. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

"If you can't do the mechanic well, maybe you shouldn't bother joining the party."
"If you're going to talk like that, why don't you just quit?"
"If you don't understand that, you'd be wise to leave the party."
"Let's ignore them."
"Let’s leave [person] out."
"It's not worth wasting our time, you should quit."
"Don't join if your equipment is that bad/such a low item level."

Like what do you not understand? You are clearly excluding someone from doing content by doing this. Why do you ignore that point so much lol. As I told someone else, you don't have to like it. The randoms you accuse of sniping certainly don't like it, I don't like it. But that is how the game handles entrance to FT. This is not some PF people sign up for. It is literally "walk up and put in a cipher". Nothing more, nothing less. It is not gated behind savages and ultimates where you have to go out of your way to talk to an NPC to unlock said content, it is unlocked by doing OC by DEFAULT. What do you elitists not understand...

As for ignoring them and leaving them on the floor. See ToS again.

"For example, the following types of situations fall under the act of giving an advantage to the enemy (or the opposing team/players in PvP content):

"I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group."

(Reviving someone falls under healing for me, its fine if you dont see it that way)

"I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group." <--- btw that involves being in the group, and thats the point where it isnt against the ToS, every Healer/Tank is it not responsible for things outside the own group, if there is a random and i have my settings to show only group/alliance member names or what ever, sorry to tell you but then i didnt see you or anything

The ToS you are posting all the time right now, involves being part of the group, square cant and doesnt expect to heal/rezz people outside of the own group because thats as "controller" player way to annoying