OC is a soulless cash grab designed for sub retention and is not fun

[Supersnow845]

You can farm tomes from CE's so do enlighten me: where is the actual difference between Atma and tomes? Apart from the fact that you can farm tomes in a wide variety of content, from Fates to high end raids. While atmas lock you to Fates and CE's.

Are you a gambling addict and need that RNG drop or sth?

No I just think the item you use to make the relics should be tied to the relics, not “pick it up from Rowena”

They could change it so after the first atma grind each new relic cost 500 atma shards of each colour with atma shards being guaranteed drops in batches of 5/10/20 whatever. Just make it somewhat relevant to the quest other than “hey Rowena sells it as usual”

But in the absence of that system I’d rather it use more atma than tomes

[Infindox]

You can farm tomes from CE's so do enlighten me: where is the actual difference between Atma and tomes? Apart from the fact that you can farm tomes in a wide variety of content, from Fates to high end raids. While atmas lock you to Fates and CE's.

Are you a gambling addict and need that RNG drop or sth?

I like actually feeling like I'm working towards a relic weapon. It makes it feel special, like I had to put effort into it. The reason why EW's relics felt bad was I could passively get it without even trying.

[Y2K21]

No I just think the item you use to make the relics should be tied to the relics, not “pick it up from Rowena”

They could change it so after the first atma grind each new relic cost 500 atma shards of each colour with atma shards being guaranteed drops in batches of 5/10/20 whatever. Just make it somewhat relevant to the quest other than “hey Rowena sells it as usual”

But in the absence of that system I’d rather it use more atma than tomes

You should know by now that the only choices you have are Tome weapon 2.0 or Slot Machine.

[Jeeqbit]

WoW that is some really low standards when it comes to content quality.

It's literally what MMOs have always been...

While I don't mind a bit of a grind, gameplay wise I expect more from a company like SE than doing the same 10 CE's over and over for 50hrs+.

CEs are fun. I could do these over and over again because they are fun. They are not the same as FATEs that just do a conal AoE; they are designed like dungeon or raid bosses and are way more fun.

Also, how do you expect SE to give you 1,792 hours of non-repeatable content each major patch?

Not to mention "Farming overworld trash mobs".

Again, this has happened in MMOs for decades. The idea of it is 1. so you aren't just doing CEs and FATEs 2. so that you will form parties and do it together with others sometimes which is social and 3. so you will use your Phantom Job and gear to try and overcome the challenge of tanking so many of them and killing them efficiently.

Social interaction is the point. In contrast, we had Island Sanctuary in Endwalker. Would you prefer that? Clicking things constantly, all alone, with no social interaction? That made Endwalker so boring. Doing things with others is fun.

IMHO the best relic steps are the ones that encourage the player to engage with multiple facets of the game in parallel. Not just force people into one thing and make them grind till their hair turns gray.

Multiple facets of the game... such as? Click a vegetable in Island Sanctuary, do a variant dungeon, do a levequest, do a weekly hunt bill, do crystal tower for the 50,000th time? I'd rather do new content that is social like this, and feels alive, with 71 others around me also doing it.

[CCheshire]

I mean, we're free to disagree with OC content, but I'm not sure how it's a cash grab? We've already paid for our monthly sub; it's not like OC is now DLC that costs extra to join the area, as it's all included with the base price.

[Granyala]

No I just think the item you use to make the relics should be tied to the relics, not “pick it up from Rowena”

Really, that's your reason? So make it an NPC within OC that sells the Demiatmas.

I like actually feeling like I'm working towards a relic weapon. It makes it feel special, like I had to put effort into it. The reason why EW's relics felt bad was I could passively get it without even trying.

Lots of ways to do that w/o having to limit players to one particular set of super boring content with a toxic RNG grind that doesn't feature any form of bad luck protection.

Light grind from past relics comes to mind, as an example. That can be applied to literally any content of the game. You can even exclude current Experts and Raids, that people run anyway and you wouldn't start capped the moment the patch dropped.
That last point is the main reason why the EW relic felt "bleh". We always already had 2K tomes and could finish it right away.

It's literally what MMOs have always been...

CEs are fun. I could do these over and over again because they are fun.

Also, how do you expect SE to give you 1,792 hours of non-repeatable content each major patch?

Again, this has happened in MMOs for decades. The idea of it is 1. so you aren't just doing CEs and FATEs 2. so that you will form parties and do it together with others sometimes which is social and 3. so you will use your Phantom Job and gear to try and overcome the challenge of tanking so many of them and killing them efficiently.

Social interaction is the point.

Multiple facets of the game... such as?

1) Not an argument. "It has always been this way" is just dumb. Genres can evolve, heck genres HAVE to evolve if they want to stay relevent. Zeitgeist changes. Just look at what a MASSIVE success World of Warcraft was. Why? because it DIDN'T do things the same way as the MMOs that came before it.

2) CE's are fun for a while until you understand the encounters and they become just a dance you are used to. Sometimes benign, sometimes annoying but not really a threat anymore. I do agree that they are what boss-fates should have been from the start (tough it's super hard to keep them accessible once a zone is starved of players), which is probably why FATEs aren't that complex.

3) I don't. Simple as that. I don't need braindead RNG grind just to have "something to do". I am not a Kiddo, I am not unemployed and I rather have a game with limited and well designed content than just a soulless "SMACK MOBS FOR 50-80hrs to get item!!11".

4) I cannot get Atmas from the zone mobs. Forming groups is not necessary. The gear is irrelevant unless you want to deal with the mess that is the tower. Apart from that: nothing, I repeat: nothing is more boring to me that facerolling benign overworld mobs. Such tasks are best suited to automation, if only that was allowed. as it is not, whatever gold coins can buy simply doesn't exist for me.

5) What social interaction? Typing "LFG CE" and "TYFP" once? because that is the amount of interaction I have witnessed so far. Everyone is too busy frantically racing to the next FATE to even trash talk in the zone chat. I can have the same interaction, or much more of it in any dungeon or raid. I do not need a braindead trashmob grind for that.

6) Dungeons, open world FATEs in ALL zones, repeatable quests, old Raids, old alliance raids, old trials heck they could even incorporate gold saucer if they wanted to. SE could do A LOT to add more variety than just "grind FATEs in this one zone until your eyes bleed and your fingers break!". Think about it: this game has more than 10 YEARS worth of content much of which newer players never got to see in it's prime!

I mean, we're free to disagree with OC content, but I'm not sure how it's a cash grab?

I think he meant by encouraging to maintain a sub in what otherwise constitutes a content drought due to the time the relic grind needs.

[Jeeqbit]

Dungeons, open world FATEs in ALL zones, repeatable quests, old Raids, old alliance raids, old trials heck they could even incorporate gold saucer if they wanted to. SE could do A LOT to add more variety than just "grind FATEs in this one zone until your eyes bleed and your fingers break!". Think about it: this game has more than 10 YEARS worth of content much of which newer players never got to see in it's prime!

Arguably this happens with the tomestone step anyway.

[Granyala]

Arguably this happens with the tomestone step anyway.

Only really affects hardcore players that do multiple jobs though.

[Supersnow845]

Really, that's your reason? So make it an NPC within OC that sells the Demiatmas.

Lots of ways to do that w/o having to limit players to one particular set of super boring content with a toxic RNG grind that doesn't feature any form of bad luck protection.

Light grind from past relics comes to mind, as an example. That can be applied to literally any content of the game. You can even exclude current Experts and Raids, that people run anyway and you wouldn't start capped the moment the patch dropped.
That last point is the main reason why the EW relic felt "bleh". We always already had 2K tomes and could finish it right away.

If EW was 5000 tomes per step instead of 2000 that wouldn’t have made the relic more interesting because you couldn’t get it immediately because tomes as a system are inherently uninteresting, it’s basically buying a relic weapon with Gil. It doesn’t make thematic sense nor does it “feel” fulfilling. You can argue I’m putting way too much stock on feeling but I mean the relics are useless anyway, if they don’t feel good what’s the point anyway.

I suggested a non RNG way (each relic requires guaranteed drops of shards of atma) but using tomes as a substitute for light (which I’ll remind you had RNG involved as well) to allow people to achieve it how they want is the exact argument they used for the EW relics

[yesnt]

No I just think the item you use to make the relics should be tied to the relics, not “pick it up from Rowena”

You know, I've always wondered why they didn't involve crafting in the relics instead of just letting Gerolt do the work for us. Could make a great exchange between people who like combat and people who like crafting, preferably without just tossing it on MB, but creating some kind of interactive interface for this. Not that this would happen anyway, but one can dream.