Rewards vs pvp integrity

[Mawlzy]

I wouldn't be so disheartened by being called an NPC, among some of those "skilled premades" it's more of a mark of prestige than you think~ especially when it's that whole group rallying to call ONE person that. Fear and/or misguided loathing does funny things to the mind!

Anyway... this phenomenon of "feeder premades", can't say I've observed it much if at all. It's usually one person tucking themselves into an obscure part of the terrain. If I notice that and they're not in my party I'll be rather direct, "/a Anyone with one <somebody> in their party? Suggest a votekick if I were you, they're afk/botting". Perhaps you mean the thuglife premades that selectively play based on who they see in their alliance (or know which fellow gangstas are on the other factions to further guide their actions)? /fakesmile Find that to be a bit more common, insular tribalism is a common thing... so it's much harder to weed out if it is proving to be a problem at times.

I digress somewhat though, however this is covering "integrity" so... eh.

Some matches only make sense if you recognize one padding/assassin premade is going after another. I'd say that's a pretty clear game integrity issue.

[ThreeBeastSmile]

Some matches only make sense if you recognize one padding/assassin premade is going after another. I'd say that's a pretty clear game integrity issue.

We're reading from the same page. If the inverted commas on integrity made that unclear I apologize, I wasn't speaking with disdain there. Was just detailing on that type of premade and that it's a more common fixture than it's been made out to be. Given that it can be driven by far more unsavoury elements (let's just say pettiness) than mere sloth, it's a more eminent thing too. Just my opinion of course.

Bit of personal trivia, but I believe I was removed from one bunker discord on the basis of questioning that behaviour. Was told, "fuck honour" and not that long after that I was no longer a member. So yeah, it's kinda a thing yannoooooow.

[Mawlzy]

We're reading from the same page. If the inverted commas on integrity made that unclear I apologize, I wasn't speaking with disdain there. Was just detailing on that type of premade and that it's a more common fixture than it's been made out to be. Given that it can be driven by far more unsavoury elements (let's just say pettiness) than mere sloth, it's a more eminent thing too. Just my opinion of course.

Bit of personal trivia, but I believe I was removed from one bunker discord on the basis of questioning that behaviour. Was told, "fuck honour" and not that long after that I was no longer a member. So yeah, it's kinda a thing yannoooooow.

Understood, and I completely agree with you.

PvP Discords definitely do some good, like keeping Rival Wings sort of alive. But some servers have a culture that that is highly counter-productive to PvP integrity, and frankly attracts people I'd rather avoid.

[Eastwall]

As long as the rewards aren't FOMO, having a high win requirement seems perfectly acceptable because while players don't have to rush to try and win, they're still obligated to TRY and WIN when they do finally dive in to claim those rewards, no amount of AFKing will get them there.

It's why the Feast is such a subject of contention. Not because of the skill barrier per say (because there are plenty of skilled PVPers), but rather the fact that it came and went like the breeze and there's a lot of newer folks who could likely win if given the chance ...but a lot of old wolves from back then are fat and toothless these days it seems, and the exclusivity matters more to them than having competition again.

Yeah, that's what gw2 did. The legendary amulet l got Few months ago will never go away. It is just that the requirement of winning 120 ranked games to obtain a certain crafting Material can take you a long time if you suck. But that doesn't need to be done in one season.

[Teno]

This reads like bait. Nobody but trolls who actually barely do pvp want to cut rewards for losers, especially not pvp players.

[Commander_Justitia]

This reads like bait. Nobody but trolls who actually barely do pvp want to cut rewards for losers, especially not pvp players.

Idk, I think frontline was better when there was no exp yet. Because people only joined to win and PvP, not to do their roulettes or freaking moogle event fast losing grinding sessions. You maybe don't have to go down to 0 exp or moogle tomestones, but you could reduce it, so losing isn't so attractive.
It still popped regularly, just not the other less played modes where you had to wait hours or days to get a pop, but this is solved now anyway with the daily rotation. But maybe there should be a 48 mode too?

I don't like how the discussion about rewards always shifts to old feast rewards being made available again, as if SE has no other power than to reuse assets that already existed before. It is like acknowledging that someone sees PvP as nothing more than it could be, that they only care about past rewards but not about the future game mode.

There are so many rare items in the game from 1.0 and obscure methods like quick venture and item codes from stuff that you can no longer buy. Items that were released on some datacenters in some regions but not elsewhere. Items that already exist but are not dyeable yet after more than a decade of requests, like the sealrock glam. Nobody ever talks about these anymore.

There should be an item that needs dozens of wolf collars, or even hundred for a single piece
e.g. Having a turnin for 50 wolf collar to change the seal rock glam into a dyed version.
e.g. A stand alone PvP themed armor set that needs a fckton of wolf collars - like really grindy like a hunt mount.

otherwise series crystals still have no value, once you played 1 series to 30, you can almost buy everything you really want. Besides all the reskin glam.
While I liked the upgrades to hellhound weapons, they introduced a new item that you need for it, so crystals are still in high supply...Maybe 10000-15000 crystals should let people buy 1 of those red upgrade items directly...
What about a hellhound armor that can be upgraded with subtle red effects too?

Players would be busy a whole year if they make it grindy. PvP Relic... Still a lot of untouched potential for PvP, for a crowd that is maybe done with PvE.

[Goldolds1972]

It'll end up a ghosttown cause it seems like recently theres a ton more pvp static teams joining the FL and mowing through us that yes, want the rewards, but also try but havent done all the youtube watching to learn what buttons to push when and at what cycle during certain times and stuff. If it werent for malmstone rewards, I would never do pvp as im not much into it to begin with. But what would make it more enjoyable to play is 1.This is for roulette anyways, not queuing specifically up for it, but you must queue as a random so it is mixed up entirely between teams. I think people can do one 5-10min session without friends. 2. Take away pullin and knockback skills. Gets old when there isnt any fighting at all. Its just player getting tied down and cheap killed. Or make FL roulette just like signing up for a dungeon, you enter as the class you entered with and the teams are evened out like a dungeon. No more everyone being the same class so people get yanked around till killed. I have no problems with friends playing together like a lot of people keep arguing about. Its the ones that play together like a static team. Yes, I suck, you can all sit there and tease me about it. But I'd at least like to fight in a pvp FL instead of getting pulled around and then tied down and killed with no possibility of defending myself. So to me its either must sign up as a solo rando for FL roulette or it get treated like signing up for a dungeon run. Getting to a point where if i even make it to the mount right now on the malmstones, its the last I play for pvp. FL is not fun at all with it being just running into battlefield just to get yanked around 50 times.

[ThreeBeastSmile]

<snip cuz gonna ramble>

Do you go as RPR when you play FL? Generally you will be focused unless you get good with the teleport and use it to joust better when attempting dives. RPR is treated as one of those spooky jobs (no pun intended) that gets held down asap normally. Might be worth switching to a different job like DRG until you can handle being the likely focus. RPR should be just fine when you notice the return teleport is 30y, it's actually really really good at hit and runs.

You're really not as disadvantaged as you think queuing alone, but I suppose if you don't enjoy the pvp for pvp then you're not going to improve much. Passion tends to kindle gitting gudder faster. Take this from someone who regularly runs at smaller groups alone and skirmishes without dying, job pick permitting. You can learn to play around knockbacks and draw-ins with just a bit of instinct, which you'd start picking up by not declaring the pvp as a total write-off in your mind. It's a pity so many yield to the more thuggish groups though, and decide it's not worth it outside of the rewards and never return.

Thus we return to the vibe of the topic, why do we have so many queuing up "just for the reward", while also bringing in these "I cba" defeatist (or downright dismissive) attitudes? Why are most of all the attitudes concerning pvp motives right now negative? That's the quandary. Sometimes I'll hang out at various instances of WDP, and see some sprouts seemingly having fun in the dueling area. I'll occasionally cut in to gauge interest in pvp as a whole, and things tend to go from there. It's nice when there's enthusiasm. There needs to be more of that. (Maybe WDP can start by looking a bit more presentable for one, after so many years...)

[Mawlzy]

Thus we return to the vibe of the topic, why do we have so many queuing up "just for the reward", while also bringing in these "I cba" defeatist (or downright dismissive) attitudes? Why are most of all the attitudes concerning pvp motives right now negative? That's the quandary. Sometimes I'll hang out at various instances of WDP, and see some sprouts seemingly having fun in the dueling area. I'll occasionally cut in to gauge interest in pvp as a whole, and things tend to go from there. It's nice when there's enthusiasm. There needs to be more of that. (Maybe WDP can start by looking a bit more presentable for one, after so many years...)

The semi-facetious answer is "because it's an MMO."

That said, the "gimme summat or I won't play" seems to me to be particularly bad in 14.

But there's a lovely breeze coming in from my balcony, and thus I am optimistic. I report non-participants. Over the last six weeks, I've been contacted by GMs on four occasions who seem genuinely interested in discussing my concerns. They have encouraged me to continue to report those breaking ToS. I get the feeling there's a little PvP enclave at SE (NA at least), where GMs care about FL.

I hope I'm not fooling myself.

You want change? Vote kick and report.

I suspect there are many players "just there for the rewards" who avoid combat and don't know they're doing anything wrong. Or they figure FL is a joke mode.

Let's change that belief. Olivia tried to remove this element of the player base through her exceptional skill. Hasn't worked. Suspended accounts may be more effective than getting the snot kicked out of you by a French Maid.

Vive la résistance! Mort aux détracteurs!

[Mawlzy]

Eh... I'm pretty sure she's been trying to remove more than just AFKers and leechers though, given her "my way or the highway" attitude towards casual and solo players who won't bend the knee to her playstyle.

As you know, I didn't care for that. Equally I understand her frustration. I just offer a different solution.