Rewards vs pvp integrity

[Valence]

All this talk about cutting rewards for losers in FL or not, about freeloaders for roulettes, people throwing on purpose, etc, made me think that you'll probably never solve this conundrum fully: adding rewards will essentially draw in people from other parts of the MMO that just want said rewards but hate the mode or just don't want to engage enough with it, and will also encourage people that actually enjoy the mode to "optimize" their investment to get to said rewards better or faster.

This is not a hazard that in current FL a lot of the population is just there to level up their jobs. It's not completely binary and black and white, some may hate the mode, some may like it, some may be okay with it and the xp is the motivator that makes them queue for it either way. Cut this out and FL becomes a dead mode, much like if you cut the crystal series and casual will peter out as well.

This is not a hazard either that the more rewards we have had in the competitive ranked pvp modes in XIV, the more win trading and obnoxious toxic behavior has happened, because rewards were limited in nature. Currently there is a lack of rewards to keep people engaged into ranked which is something that has been universally panned by the ranked pvp crowd, but I truly wonder what would happen were we to get seasonal top 100 mounts and unique gear and whatnot?

I'm not sure there is a true and serious answer there. This is a MMO community and it's inherently driven by rewards. Put this in stark contrast with a lot of multiplayer games where even if the multiplayer population still remains a minority (solo, campaign/story and co-op modes are always more populated than ranked no matter the game), the rewards are generally pathetic if there is even some, yet they do play ranked consistently. It's not the case with XIV, where people don't play the sport for the sport itself fully.

[Burmecia]

hmm, taking exp earnings (or "earnings") away would kill especially frontline.
some people afking and acting like tools because they're there only for exp are tradeoff for not dead pvp.

i prefer it this way. rather than having pvp being ghosttown, where very small group of veterans are killing each other day in and day -- without even some exp to show for it.

...we aren't talking CC muppets calling for Feast FOMO to make comeback, right?

[Mawlzy]

Seem to recall there are some specific rewards/achievements that tend to encourage people to play badly. Like isn't there one for capping nodes on Seal? I assumed this was the reason some players head directly to a point as far from the battle as possible and just sit there.

[ThreeBeastSmile]

You can't change attitude with a fingersnap solution, as that's what this is, an attitude problem. When the reaction is almost an abhorred shock that you're actually, and I mean actually, are playing a mode just for the mode upon being asked why. Attitude problem. Justification for that contempt typically includes something or rather "game has nasty netcode y u do", "pvp is bad in general". Acknowledgeable? Sure. But still all subjective. I think why does netball even exist when there's basketball? Which to me is just a better version of the same game, but if someone is getting enjoyment out of it who am I to judge? Some people might play both because they just happen to enjoy ball games (and netball is even on the rise where I live...) That's my stance with pvp, and why I partake of it even in this game. I like to fight people when it's an option, even if the venue is merely passable. At least it isn't p2w automated, that's a line drawn. I can still move freely and have real-time control over my actions even when there's a hardcoded delay.

Either way, personally, my motivation levels are very weakly influenced by rewards. I'll stop when I'm no longer having fun regardless of whether or not I've hit a milestone, much like how I've quit raiding and pve for the most part in this game (until it might pick up again in 8.0). That being a seeming minority take... to put it plainly, is flabbergasting (the playing for enjoyment angle). But you just can't change something inherent at the flick of a switch. It's frustrating that others can seem so fickle in their NEED for a tangible reward in order to do anything, but it is what it is. It makes everything more bland. But I guess that's a reflection of the mindset of someone that would... yeah, focus on clicking tomeliths and not actually fighting in a battleground just to make number go up on the "achievement" panel. Bland.

Game could always use more pvp variety too, that would help a bunch probably. Finally, as a sidenote... I'm also not sure why "playing for fun" and one's output being of a higher standard can't go hand in hand neither. That I can't be playing for fun simply for injecting some finesse (p.s. not in a premade). It's such a strange logic, but one I've seen invoked.

[ThaCa]

I think the main solution for these problems is giving multiple ways to get most rewards, surely it might depopulate some activities but it would be great for player enjoyment.

If I could grind MGP by playing PvP or level up Jobs by playing Mahjong for example, I would do it in a heartbeat.

As for the PvP part of the issue that tends to lead to cheating, there's not many solutions beyond SQEX actually doing their job and properly moderating it. I think making most rewards eventually achievable would help a lot, letting practically any rank farm scaleable currency (based on rank) could help and if there's like Top 300 locked stuff, then allowing them to buy all the previous stuff if they have enough currency by reaching the Rank in current Season would probably help.

[Commander_Justitia]

Most games do something like Mount A+ for ranked top300, and for all other they have Mount A. Like a more detailed or more capable version, e.g. dyeable for glamour sets. So there is still difference, that sets you apart for playing ranked. A mount could have more details to it, more places to ride, be faster, a special song or an animation skill, which the base version wont have.
So there is room to separate while making everyone happy, to get at least 1 version of the item.
This would disincentive cheaters, as they often would already be satisfied with a normal version, which isnt that much different... Still without gamemasters being able to monitor properly the reports..it is difficult to tell how it would end

[Eastwall]

The reward in ranked sucks... I like 5v5 But ranked is just not worth it. They can try what gw2 did. Put unique reward in ranked. Some of them just requires you to play, But if you win, you can progress like 3 times faster than a loss. Then, there are legendary reward you can earn. You don't have to reach a certain rank like ff14, But You have to win a certain number of games. Recent one l did was to win 4 conquests in a day... That was a challenge.

So, l guess add more reward But require winning Or severely curb the speed When losing might do it?

[Commander_Justitia]

The fastest way to get series exp is to afk in CC casual - 700 exp in 1min vs. 900 exp for winning after 6min+...
They would need to change their systems to value winning more.
I still don't see why I should bother with ranked, if I can just play casual and get the same over time, even if slower. There is not really time pressure anyway then.
Same way I could not bother with Series Crystals right now - as it shows the mount and glamor pieces seem to be coming back for Crystals, which is good, because it was announced initially that way, but.. it also tells me I don't have to play each series now. When 1 series give me enough Crystals to buy several sets and mounts...It is just time exclusivity then.

If you play PvP anyway for fun sometimes, you won't have to play ranked, to get the items. If you don't play PvP for fun, you should play ranked to get it. Which is counter productive?! You want people that enjoy PvP to keep playing Ranked, not the opposite.

[Mawlzy]

Some of that Aether matches on Onsal yesterday were the worst I can remember. Including the following:

My team was yellow in S spawn, blue was NE. As soon as the match started, I noticed two (possibly 3) green dots edging up the eastern border of the map. A couple of minutes later, the behavior was repeated, presumably after their first death.

I don't know if anyone on the relevant alliance attempted a vote kick since the offending players continued the behavior for the entire game (which we somehow narrowly won). Given both recorded 0/X/0 (along with a third player) K/D/A, and one did literally no damage and restored 0 HP, it's clear this was not some cunning scheme to disrupt the enemy. The players were running to an enemy base to die.

One can argue I guess that this is no big deal (we won after all), and that this kind of behavior is restricted to a small minority. The issue is that such people are queueing in as parties with a premeditated feeding plan. It may be I'm just attuned to it now, but my sense is this behavior is becoming more common.

[ThreeBeastSmile]

(And the skilled premades on their own team never cared what "NPCs" they were playing with anyway.)

I wouldn't be so disheartened by being called an NPC, among some of those "skilled premades" it's more of a mark of prestige than you think~ especially when it's that whole group rallying to call ONE person that. Fear and/or misguided loathing does funny things to the mind!

Anyway... this phenomenon of "feeder premades", can't say I've observed it much if at all. It's usually one person tucking themselves into an obscure part of the terrain. If I notice that and they're not in my party I'll be rather direct, "/a Anyone with one <somebody> in their party? Suggest a votekick if I were you, they're afk/botting". Perhaps you mean the thuglife premades that selectively play based on who they see in their alliance (or know which fellow gangstas are on the other factions to further guide their actions)? /fakesmile Find that to be a bit more common, insular tribalism is a common thing... so it's much harder to weed out if it is proving to be a problem at times.

I digress somewhat though, however this is covering "integrity" so... eh.