Tanks need more than just TankBusters

[Mikey_R]

What if, on each auto-attack, the boss randomly gains a self-buff that makes the next attack crit? You could react to that, you'd eat the first, but if that crit buffs again, maybe you ought to start mitigating.

The question is, where does the mitigation come from? If you have to mitigate this random string of crits, could that not pull mitigation away from something where it is needed more, like a tank buster? If you were to add a mitigation that is designed to be used for these situations, what does that then look like, most importantly, the cooldown. If the cooldown is short enough, what is stopping someone from just using it off of cooldown etc. We also then have to look at healers and how these changes impact them, mainly looking at would it increase the frequency of having to use GCD heals.

There's tons of possibilities to handle this. The bigger issue in the devs unwillingness to massively change - or more likely management's unwillingness to budget for such change - the underlying combat system.

Whilst possibilities are numerous, it doesn't mean potential solutions are and that is the issue. How do you, as a tank/healer, deal with these RNG mechanics in a way that doesn't impact the more major mechanics of the fight. I would also be interested to know what your take on 'massively changing the underlying combat system' looks like.

Again, that's an assumption. Could very well make it so that the boss, on each autoattack, does one of three things and you see it from a self-buff:

* Crit the tank.
* 360° cleave in melee range for high damage (melee DPS would take 60%-80% damage).
* Fire two-four ranged bolts at random party members for 25%-40% of their health.

There is no planning for that, not more than one autoattack ahead. You could be getting the bolts the entire fight.

And that sounds horrible for the healers. 60-80% of a melee's HP every 2-3 seconds is just going to delete them in an unlucky situation, not to mention parties tend to group together so it will more likely be damage on the full party. Even your ranged bolts would just amount to full party healing because you wouldn't have the time to heal everyone up individually. Since these 2 are handled in the same way, 2/3 times you will just do a full party heal. Rather than spamming Glare, you are now spamming Medica 3. I know there is a lot of healer talk about how they want to change the healer role, but I'm pretty sure that isn't it.

[Carighan]

And that sounds horrible for the healers. 60-80% of a melee's HP every 2-3 seconds is just going to delete them in an unlucky situation

I mean, they could just get out of melee range after being hit until healed up? It's just a 360° cleave, they've been in MMOs from 25 years ago, they're not some arcane mystery as to how groups handle them.

Likewise, the random damage you handle by, and I know this is going to be wild: healing. The ones with the cast bar. The ones that don't have a CD. You make it sounds as if spamming Medica is a bad thing, I'm a healer, if I have to spam a spell, it better sure be a heal!

[Mikey_R]

I don't see rigid encounter planning as a necessary part of the game's design. We absolutely could have more variable encounters that would require different playstyles on account of players. There could still be some level of planning, but it wouldn't lead to a step by step, by the second plan. Instead players might work out a priority system and supplement that with short preplanned sets of actions for specific situations.

But it is still planned. You might have 2 different routes depending on what comes first, but that is still a plan. No matter what a fight does, you need to have the resources available to deal with it. If the boss tank busters you several times in a row, you are going to die as you run out of defensives, so even in designing fights, there is a level of planning required so the party doesn't get wiped out due to something out of their control.

I mean, they could just get out of melee range after being hit until healed up? It's just a 360° cleave, they've been in MMOs from 25 years ago, they're not some arcane mystery as to how groups handle them.

Likewise, the random damage you handle by, and I know this is going to be wild: healing. The ones with the cast bar. The ones that don't have a CD. You make it sounds as if spamming Medica is a bad thing, I'm a healer, if I have to spam a spell, it better sure be a heal!

Or, you just reduce the damage of the cleave to something more manageable. My 712 Sage (i700 weapon) prognosis heals for a little over 10% of my max HP, Eukrasian Prognosis 2 is about 50% stronger with the shield taken into account, which is then only about 15% of my max HP. My issue wasn't with the idea, the issue was with the damage, bring it down to say ~15-25% of their max HP and it is something the healers will still have to spam heals to keep the party alive, however, it is actually more feasible. (Also, you know no DPS is going to move out of range just on the off chance they might die, add in the fact you lose DPS not only to the healer having to heal but the melee/tank stepping away, which, if it happens enough, could lead to too little damage being done and the DPS check is failed.)