The identity of Pictomancer is being destroyed

[Sequora]

I'm pretty sure moving the hammer outside burst window wasn't their intention on this, just an awful oversight. They could have gone into the nerfs differently like making motifs less potent and lowering the painting time to 3.5 or 3 seconds instead of 4, but what do I know, I only mentioned this would be the worst way to implement these changes almost a year ago. Picto doesn't need to do the damage it does, it can sit comfortably between red mage and black mage.

It should be much closer to black mage than red mage unless they make significant changes to Rez tax. It should be doing black mage levels of damage once you take into account their raid damage buff.

[angienessyo]

It should be much closer to black mage than red mage unless they make significant changes to Rez tax. It should be doing black mage levels of damage once you take into account their raid damage buff.

Well, realistically PCT should be doing similar damage to the melee that have buffs. Which would still put it in a good spot below BLM/SAM/VPR but alongside the other melee and above the other casters.

[Carighan]

Well, realistically PCT should be doing similar damage to the melee that have buffs. Which would still put it in a good spot below BLM/SAM/VPR but alongside the other melee and above the other casters.

Why VPR? Samurai has cast bars, I get that, but Viper is a fully mobile job with extremely little going on so like Summoner it allows you to pay full attention to the fight - a very easy job to play.

Shouldn't Viper deal lower damage, owing to how "safe" it is?

[Sarantserel]

Why VPR? Samurai has cast bars, I get that, but Viper is a fully mobile job with extremely little going on so like Summoner it allows you to pay full attention to the fight - a very easy job to play.

Shouldn't Viper deal lower damage, owing to how "safe" it is?

Unless they REALLY go hard with melee downtime, VPR should be aligned aDPS and rDPS wise with the other selfish DPS. I think trying too hard to balance for "ease" leads to a bunch of balance issue, like MCH being the worst DPS 3 expansions in a row and the whole argument around who deserves the most damage due to ease of use, which becomes highly subjective

Well, realistically PCT should be doing similar damage to the melee that have buffs. Which would still put it in a good spot below BLM/SAM/VPR but alongside the other melee and above the other casters.

Yeah, with PCT's current damage profile, trying to align it's aDPS with RPR's and lower its raid buff to 2-3% like Arcane Circle would probably be the best spot for it. Trying to bring down PCT's aDPS down to full buffers like MNK, NIN and DRG when its damage profile is so bursty feels way harder.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Why VPR? Samurai has cast bars, I get that, but Viper is a fully mobile job with extremely little going on so like Summoner it allows you to pay full attention to the fight - a very easy job to play.

Shouldn't Viper deal lower damage, owing to how "safe" it is?

Kinda off topic but,
I kinda think this as well, and I think I said something like this in my past comments. Im not sure why ppl think VPR should be doing high dps. Sure its a selfless job with no buffs BUT just like smn its pretty easy melee that is a "safe" pick. Ppl on here always talk about how smn should be the weakest caster bc of how easy it is and everything but VRP is just has easy and almost plays itself. The job has been decided as the "follow the dotted line" job... If you believe VPR should do high dps because its has no utility, fine but don't turn around and say that the main reason smn should be below rdm and closer to phy range just bc its easy since VPR is just as easy and is just as moblie.

[Supersnow845]

Well, realistically PCT should be doing similar damage to the melee that have buffs. Which would still put it in a good spot below BLM/SAM/VPR but alongside the other melee and above the other casters.

We base every balance decision around rDPS why do people still think the selfish jobs need to be on top. Like that’s literally what rDPS is designed to equalise

Like does anyone have a valid reason why jobs like DRG or NIN should do less rDPS than a selfish DPS

[Rithy255]

We base every balance decision around rDPS why do people still think the selfish jobs need to be on top. Like that’s literally what rDPS is designed to equalise

Like does anyone have a valid reason why jobs like DRG or NIN should do less rDPS than a selfish DPS

Maybe I'm wrong but I struggle to even see the point of raid buffs anymore anyway. The only ones I see working is DNC partner, Bard songs and ast buff cards, as those cooldowns differ from the fomular. If every job was selfish it could lead to more unique job design as jobs like old Paladin could exist. I just find myself looking at the raid buff system we have and wondering why even bother because it doesn't add anything of value to the actual game but just limits job design

Though every DPS job should be judged at total raid contribution as it stands, theirs no reason for a raid buff job to be higher or lower then a samurai in total RDPS I think people look at RDPS sometimes and don't realise that takes into account damage gained from raid buffs

[Sarantserel]

Maybe I'm wrong but I struggle to even see the point of raid buffs anymore anyway. The only ones I see working is DNC partner, Bard songs and ast buff cards, as those cooldowns differ from the fomular. If every job was selfish it could lead to more unique job design as jobs like old Paladin could exist. I just find myself looking at the raid buff system we have and wondering why even bother because it doesn't add anything of value to the actual game but just limits job design

Though every DPS job should be judged at total raid contribution as it stands, theirs no reason for a raid buff job to be higher or lower then a samurai in total RDPS I think people look at RDPS sometimes and don't realise that takes into account damage gained from raid buffs

I kind of agree with this. Raid buffs were interesting before the 2min meta because they had different timing and had to find moment to line them up. With everything being on a 2min timer, as long as everyone is pressing their button on CD, they'll naturally always line up. And as you said, this 2min meta screwed over jobs like PLD and BLM because their flatter damage profile couldn't shine when reopeners went from happening every 6min to every 2min.

(I still think the 2min meta is the root of much of the issues we're encountering now. With no potency changes, you'd go from bursting 10 times in FRU to 7 times, and reopeners would only happen 4 times.)

[Azurarok]

Maybe I'm wrong but I struggle to even see the point of raid buffs anymore anyway. The only ones I see working is DNC partner, Bard songs and ast buff cards, as those cooldowns differ from the fomular. If every job was selfish it could lead to more unique job design as jobs like old Paladin could exist. I just find myself looking at the raid buff system we have and wondering why even bother because it doesn't add anything of value to the actual game but just limits job design

Though every DPS job should be judged at total raid contribution as it stands, theirs no reason for a raid buff job to be higher or lower then a samurai in total RDPS I think people look at RDPS sometimes and don't realise that takes into account damage gained from raid buffs

Yeah I've been thinking about that a lot too. There's not much effort involved when it just lines up by pressing the big 2min skill on cooldown. You at least had to account for what timings to look out/build up resources for based on your party comp when they were on different cooldowns. AST doesn't get to throw dps buff cards outside the 2min buff anymore so they don't even need to watch for jobs with 1min bursts either.

Only time it gets interesting's if roulettes decide to match you with the same job and you have to adjust to avoid overwriting eachother

[Sunako]

We base every balance decision around rDPS why do people still think the selfish jobs need to be on top. Like that’s literally what rDPS is designed to equalise

Like does anyone have a valid reason why jobs like DRG or NIN should do less rDPS than a selfish DPS

Selfish dps rarely are meta, unless they have insanely high burst. Game generally want to reward for having raid buffs and coordinated 2min burst window between group members. If you play group like WHM/SGE/MCH/BLM/SAM/VPR you don't need any kind of coordination between group members or don't get penalized, if people press their buttons random time. Everybody play their own game and not impact each others rdps except with kill time.

If you would make selfish dps do same rdps than buffer jobs in optimized settings, there would be no reason to use anything else but selfish dps in party finder where people may use their buffs and burst cooldowns at random time.

That's why it is very unlikely selfish dps will ever be meta or it will completely kill buffer jobs in less optimized settings