Quote Originally Posted by Mawlzy View Post
This is, of course, true. The question then is whether getting carried through dungeons is desirable. I'd suggest it is not for both the struggling players and those with the skill to carry them.
No I agree it's not desirable. As a capable player who's had to deal with tanks deciding they can finish fights without others, it's horrible. But my point is that it then becomes a point of pride. You can get through at any skill level but choose not to because it feels bad. To which the conversation then becomes "How much am I willing to concede before it becomes too debasing to carry out?" Because personally, it's also debasing to say "I need the bar to be lowered for me specifically" since it's a clear admission of personal failure. You can't get better. You can't ask for help. You can't do the bare minimum required to get through. The game needs to change for you for that to even be possible. You've already hit the failure state and it's up to a person's ego to tell them what they're willing to compromise on.

Personally, both scenarios are the same. It's someone who has reached a wall they find insurmountable and need a third party to help overcome them. It's just OP wants Square Enix to help them overcome it rather than the community. My initial message was just that we shouldn't say that dungeons like these create insurmountable roadblocks. By all rights you only need to do them once and then after that it becomes optional content. You can get tomes in other places than Expert. And once it's out of Expert it'll go in High Level.