Yuweyawata Field Station is so wrong

[Yeonhee]

I have no doubt some players don't put in much effort. They are not the issue here.

Your assumption is that by playing the game, one gets better at the game. This is true up to a point.

People struggle at level 100 because they are butting against the limit of what their skill level allows them to do. This is more noticeable in DT because of the marked increase in difficulty relative to EW. Playing the 10 levels of EW doesn't magically increase the skill of struggling players to cross that gap.

I don't understand why people who are good at FF14 PvE assume that everyone who is less good simply isn't trying.

I'd also note that reactions to these threads by stronger players tend to fall into two categories.

Rongway above, for example, provides useful advice on using a high camera angle. Something I'd recommend in general since it gives you a better view of what is in front of you.

The majority, however, simply belittle players who are struggling by telling them how easy the content is. Is that supposed to be helpful? Or is this just a reflexive insult common to toxic gatekeepers?

True that DT normal content is a tad more difficult than EW's where you could just watch Netflix on the side and clear no problem. But that's a really low bar. Mechanics are easy enough to understand if you actually put the effort of opening your eyes and trying to learn. I'm not even "good" at the game, I play as casually as one can play but I put the effort of trying to learn and I have no problem clearing normal content.

Imo, I feel like wiping has become such an unacceptable thing for people that should never happen even on first time and that's very sad.

And yes, in the vast majority of "DT casual content too hard" thread are people who spent their 100 levels refusing to learn the very basics of the combat mechanics and want to clear while still refusing to do so. As for the dual-difficulty in MSQ dungeon, it already exist with the Trust system. As others already said, you don't even need to press a single attacking button, you just have to open your eyes for mechanics and do your best to dodge them, the NPCs are going to clear no problem. I just don't get how easier than that people want content to be. If people just want a "Press this button to instantly win the instance", what's even the point of playing ?

[Mawlzy]

Seems like there's an Echo in here.

I love this idea of people playing through 100 levels, steadfastly "refusing to learn." The dedication!

And the Trust system has absolutely nothing to to with dual difficulty. For one thing the NPCs sometimes die in the very first dungeon for which they can be used - Holminster Switch.

[Yeonhee]

Seems like there's an Echo in here.

I love this idea of people playing through 100 levels, steadfastly "refusing to learn." The dedication!

And the Trust system has absolutely nothing to to with dual difficulty. For one thing the NPCs sometimes die in the very first dungeon for which they can be used - Holminster Switch.

I don't play that much anymore and even I still see level 100 players not using AoE on 5+ mobs. WHM spamming either Cure 1 or Cure 3. People running with/from stack markers. People standing on top on the tank with a buster marker. So yes, there are people that just don't want to learn even the basics of the combat.

It has everything to do with it. Launch any DT dungeon with Trust and don't attack a single time. NPCs are still gonna clear. Then again, how much easier do you want it to be ?

[Mawlzy]

I don't play that much anymore and even I still see level 100 players not using AoE on 5+ mobs. WHM spamming either Cure 1 or Cure 3. People running with/from stack markers. People standing on top on the tank with a buster marker. So yes, there are people that just don't want to learn even the basics of the combat.

It has everything to do with it. Launch any DT dungeon with Trust and don't attack a single time. NPCs are still gonna clear. Then again, how much easier do you want it to be ?

If you can't be bothered to read my posts, I don't think I'm obliged to repeat myself. Particularly given your insistence of parroting this lazy caricature of the clueless level 100 WHM spamming Cure I while watching Netflix.

One request: when you next see them, please give them my IGN so I can finally meet them.

[Dante131]

If MSQ dungeons are going to be challenging for skilled players and clearable by less-skilled ones, such dungeons need a dual-difficulty option.

This ongoing issue is never going to be solved by one group telling the other that they just need to try harder.

exactly this

[Mawlzy]

Allow me to magnify it, since it's apparent many skilled players are missing an important detail. And because some seem to lack empathy, let me appeal to their self-interests.

The reason less-skilled players find dungeons on expansion hard to clear is not because they have difficulty pressing their buttons. It is because they struggle to avoid the monotonous DDR mechanics. There are two implications of this, that skilled players should care about.

Running dungeons with NPCs is not easier, it is far more difficult. Why? Because the NPCs do not rez you. So what might be the response of struggling players when they get stuck on a dungeon?

The only option currently offered by the game is to queue in via DF and be carried.

Thus skilled players wishing to get through the dungeon as rapidly as possible will be frustrated by these "clueless" players wasting their time.

Many of us are thoughtful enough not to be a burden in this way and -- personal experience -- spent hours in bloody Origenics with the NPCs to advance the MSQ while not inconveniencing our skilled brothers and sisters.

But if the dungeons get increasingly difficult, you will simply see more less-skilled players in your runs slowing you down.

This will give you the opportunity to come here braying about how stupid the average player is. But I would hope you'd rather find a solution that allows you to enjoy dungeon runs, and even have MSQ dungeons made more difficult to better respect your undoubted skill.

That requires dual-track difficulty.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Current/modern difficulty metrics are extremely binary. Difficulty isn't organically baked behind the battle mechanics and jobs anymore. You cannot carry people and make them succeed at mechanics that will kill them. The only safeguards they found to counterbalance this is making tanks invulnerable in case the healer dies, which drives the binary effect even more lopsided once that safeguard fails[...]

^ This, many times over.

Additionally, I think what we're seeing from these players being walled by 'supposedly easy' mechanics are the consequences of removing too much job difficulties. For players (at least on paper) to stay 'engaged', that missing difficulty had to be moved elsewhere. Encounter design becomes the next logical 'lever' to be pulled further down. But given how they design modern encounters, how far can they really use the same template before everything starts turning from "Stand on X or get slapped" to "Stand on X or explode, Idc"?

If the job also shares that burden of complexity, at the very least SE can once again have the option to tone the encounter difficulty down. This way even if players are bad at playing their fave job, the worst they could do is playing their rotation not optimally, but still able to stay in the fray not getting one-two shot if they make mistake(s).

[Arohk]

It is because they struggle to avoid the monotonous DDR mechanics. There are two implications of this, that skilled players should care about.

they struggle because they dont read or dont pay attention.



there is always an obvious tell for dodging mechanics in normal modes, even if you get hit by a "gotcha" moment, you should know the next time.

[Mawlzy]

they struggle because they dont read or dont pay attention.

Your ability to be both insulting and wrong within a single, badly-punctuated declarative sentence is phenomenal.

Have you ever spoken to players who find dungeons hard? I have. They read guides and their tooltips, watch videos, observe cast bars, and pay attention. And they struggle.

I used to play a game for a living. Literally my only source of income. I was much better at it than most people who played. At no point did I assume that those less skilled than me were stupid or lazy.

[Mawlzy]

^ This, many times over.

Additionally, I think what we're seeing from these players being walled by 'supposedly easy' mechanics are the consequences of removing too much job difficulties. For players (at least on paper) to stay 'engaged', that missing difficulty had to be moved elsewhere. Encounter design becomes the next logical 'lever' to be pulled further down. But given how they design modern encounters, how far can they really use the same template before everything starts turning from "Stand on X or get slapped" to "Stand on X or explode, Idc"?

If the job also shares that burden of complexity, at the very least SE can once again have the option to tone the encounter difficulty down. This way even if players are bad at playing their fave job, the worst they could do is playing their rotation not optimally, but still able to stay in the fray not getting one-two shot if they make mistake(s).

100% agree, all the difficulty has been stuffed into a single type of skill which does not come naturally to everyone.