Dawntrail Dragoon Feedback

[Aco505]

oGCD weaving is a symptom of an underlying battle system issue (namely the inability to provide a fast or at least complex GCD-based combat system due to server and tick limitations), and should be resolved at that level.

When the game was created, the devs decided to go with a baseline 2.5 GCD for whichever reason, and that's why (double) weaving is prevalent. Do you you actually know what a server tick is or how it functions? Weaving is a concept that also exists in other MMOs such as WoW, so much so that the devs made many of them GCDs. This caused backlash since plenty of those were damage buffs and it felt awful to press those for 2-3 GCDs in a row before you could start pressing your actual damaging buttons. This is why things like Dark Transformation or Bestial Wrath also deal damage to the target, as compensation.

We have fast GCDs in jobs such as MNK, MCH, RPR and VPR. The baseline GCD in WoW is 1.5s. It is simply a difference in design, whether it initially happened due to technical limitations or not, but it has nothing to do with "server ticks" and more with server response time.

And since oGCDs are a wash for a DPS job (they deal damage), their usage is entirely automated and "rote", to the point where the only check is whether you as a player can mechanically, physically do this specific sequence for 8-14 minutes without drifting from it

This is already the case for every single job in the game. You can map every fight with every job, even those with procs. I don't see the point of bringing this up for DRG in particular and procs can be both GCD or oGCD-based anyway, such as Kill Command in WoW TBC.

But at the very least variable CDs, procs and non-linear sequencing can be brought in to break up the staticky nature of combat flow, which in turn would enable many tools in many jobs kits to actually be situationally relevant as you cannot know before the fight even starts when to press which gapcloser and when not to.

Sure, I still don't see how this has anything to do with DRG specifically. And your last sentence of knowing when to use a gap closer is related to encounter rather than job design. If timeline A forces the use of zero gap closers and timelines B and C force two, then you adjust. But even then, gap closers are oGCDs that deal no damage for most jobs so this wouldn't change anything. Your example would apply to cooldown or buff usages instead. That would require adjusting but the problem lies in how little variance exists in encounter design (and let's not forget the fact that FFXIV players often dislike such variance anyway).

With DRG in particular, I'd retool the job around jumping and extremely high potency attacks that fire slowly and with significant airtime that makes you immune while you're airborne (even from friendly effects!). Drop virtually all oGCDs, instead have a proc-based interdependence where jumps disable certain GCDs, so you need to go through jumps in a sequence to use all fillers in between, but each filler gives semi-random CD reductions to the CD-based jumps. Can't plan out a battle sequence, need to react to what you got available for the "next set" between jumps.

Keeps a reactive style (as when fighting a huge enemy like a dragon), strong jump focus, for bonus lore enable two stackable dragon eyes that you can spend to highlight whihc buttons will enable next jump on your hotbar for pre-plannability. Eyes are gained from... unsure about that yet.

In any case I don't think I'd rework the current implementation, I see very little worth salvaging in it.

This wish of yours is an entirely different game. It's not how FFXIV works and people asking for such drastic changes simply... don't like the FFXIV combat style. That's fine. It is far from perfect. Going from static rotations to fully random rotations with procs to check is a full flip of the current system. I don't think you want to play this game but something else. Even then, I do see the merit of asking for more proc-based game play, but it should co-exist with the current profiles so that there's variety. Otherwise, you move from one extreme to the other.

In any case, your suggestions go against what many DRG mains like about the job. Not only you want the immunity while jumping, which would break the game in many ways (we're not even immune in PvP during the LB to begin with), but you also want to remove all the oGCDs from the melee job whose entire rotation, resources and burst centers on them. It would also make the job extremely slow in the process, despite the fact that the fast-paced feeling was one of the most praised elements during EW.

What is homogenization if not this? I understand that the devs' insistence on expanding the jobs, particularly in DT, by means of adding 1 oGCD every 2-minutes has become too much but applying this process of yours to DRG of all the existing jobs is curious.

I get the feeling of wanting to fulfill the "jumps hit hard" fantasy. However, you want to achieve such a result by stripping fundamental elements of the job in the process. DRG oGCDs are hitting quite hard already, so much so that it's become a crit-reliant job after 7.1; it's been ninjafied. Any suggestions of turning oGCDs into GCDs so that they "feel" weighty are the same as those asking for the looping combo to be reduced. It goes against what DRG has been doing for its entire history as a job with the long GCD string and damage distributed across many actions.

If you don't play the job, why make suggestions that go against what DRG enjoyers love?

[Azurarok]

I'm just worried the next change we'll see is Stardiver's animation lock being reduced for doubleweaving and them removing Life Surge to get rid of the last remaining parts of the job that required any thinking.

[Aco505]

I'm just worried the next change we'll see is Stardiver's animation lock being reduced for doubleweaving and them removing Life Surge to get rid of the last remaining parts of the job that required any thinking.

Hopefully not. Stardiver's animation lock should stay as it is. Increase the potency to justify it if necessary.

[Azurarok]

I just can't be so hopeful when the most recent change the current job design team gave WHM was reducing Holy's cast time.

[Carighan]

Hopefully not. Stardiver's animation lock should stay as it is. Increase the potency to justify it if necessary.

OTOH, Life Surge feels entirely pointless. I'd rather get charge #2 and #3 of Nastrond back and in turn remove Life Surge. The HP drain is forgettable and the auto-crit is mostly meaningless due to how high modern crit chances are, lacking the "oomph" such a skill would usually want to bring.

[Aco505]

OTOH, Life Surge feels entirely pointless. I'd rather get charge #2 and #3 of Nastrond back and in turn remove Life Surge. The HP drain is forgettable and the auto-crit is mostly meaningless due to how high modern crit chances are, lacking the "oomph" such a skill would usually want to bring.

Tell me how you didn't even read the initial feedback message I posted that you replied to without telling me you didn't read it.

[Azurarok]

OTOH, Life Surge feels entirely pointless. I'd rather get charge #2 and #3 of Nastrond back and in turn remove Life Surge. The HP drain is forgettable and the auto-crit is mostly meaningless due to how high modern crit chances are, lacking the "oomph" such a skill would usually want to bring.

Whether it fits the job fantasy or not aside, it is one of the few things the job has left that makes you think of when to weave Stardiver, since there's only 2 moves in the 8 hit combo loop you want to use it on.

Without it, the burst further simplifies into just throwing whatever oGCDs you have as you please.

Between that and adjusting Life of the Dragon with Mirage Dive, I found DRG's kit in EW was pretty interesting because a lot of its complexity revolved around the order you performed your oGCDs. Spineshatter Dive also was part of this since its animation lock prevented it from being double weaved with itself, Dragonfire Dive and I think High Jump.

[CidHeiral]

Hrm, I'll be honest Aco, I feel "this job has complex oGCD weaving" is a kinda of "fake difficulty". oGCD weaving is a symptom of an underlying battle system issue (namely the inability to provide a fast or at least complex GCD-based combat system due to server and tick limitations), and should be resolved at that level.

Just "stuffing" jobs with oGCDs to squeeze in just pretends for something as simply as press-left-combo-5-times-press-right-combo-5-times (which Dragoon IS) is more than that. And since oGCDs are a wash for a DPS job (they deal damage), their usage is entirely automated and "rote", to the point where the only check is whether you as a player can mechanically, physically do this specific sequence for 8-14 minutes without drifting from it and - usually much tougher with melee DPS jobs - without falling asleep.

Now of course, fixing this without being able to touch the underlying server/tick issue is... tricky. But at the very least variable CDs, procs and non-linear sequencing can be brought in to break up the staticky nature of combat flow, which in turn would enable many tools in many jobs kits to actually be situationally relevant as you cannot know before the fight even starts when to press which gapcloser and when not to.

With DRG in particular, I'd retool the job around jumping and extremely high potency attacks that fire slowly and with significant airtime that makes you immune while you're airborne (even from friendly effects!). Drop virtually all oGCDs, instead have a proc-based interdependence where jumps disable certain GCDs, so you need to go through jumps in a sequence to use all fillers in between, but each filler gives semi-random CD reductions to the CD-based jumps. Can't plan out a battle sequence, need to react to what you got available for the "next set" between jumps.

Keeps a reactive style (as when fighting a huge enemy like a dragon), strong jump focus, for bonus lore enable two stackable dragon eyes that you can spend to highlight whihc buttons will enable next jump on your hotbar for pre-plannability. Eyes are gained from... unsure about that yet.

In any case I don't think I'd rework the current implementation, I see very little worth salvaging in it.

This all sounds horrible no thank you.

[CidHeiral]

Taking bets on how DRG is further mutilated in 7.2.

[VerySadDRG]

Taking bets on how DRG is further mutilated in 7.2.

They'll take away Life Surges