#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[YarnMage48]

To be fair, though, Eukrasian Dosis is no more Dosis than Dia, Afflatus Solace, Glare IV, is Glare, Biolysis is Broil, or Combust is Malefic.

Nor does Eukrasian Dosis even change the number of skills you need on your bar relative to the other 30s-duration DoTs. You're still using another key to then replace an GCD of the functionally identical attack, up to once per 30s (20s, in Afflatus's case; thrice per 120s in G4's case).

The difference is just that you hit the filler attack's button once more per DoT; that's it.

Ok let's break this down. Dosis III, Eukrasion Dosis III, Dykrasia II, and Eukrasion Dykrasia II adds up to 4 spells. Counting Eukraisa, that's only 3 hotbar spaces to access all 4 of them.

But Eukrasia also impacts heal GCDs. So when you add in Diagnosis, Eukrasion Diagnosis, Prognosis, and Eukrasion Prognosis, that's 8 total spells that only takes up 5 spaces on my hotbar.

So yes. Eukrasia changes the amount of space needed for my GCD skills.

[YarnMage48]

Wait hang on. Are you saying that this small difference in how the skills work makes a large impact on how the class plays to you? Interesting, interesting. I'm glad you brought that up.

I can totally understand why the Eukrasia gimmick wouldn't be enjoyable to everyone. I hope you're enjoying one of the other healer classes more!

[YarnMage48]

It's funny to me that they introduced SGE with the advantage of being able to shield on the move, then they gave SCH Seraphism the very next expansion which completely deletes SGE's advantage.

Seraphism has a cooldown. Recitation has a cooldown. Eukrasian skills are GCD. Seraphism is a great skills with a lot of cool effects, but it doesn't in any way nullify the fact that a Sage can cast a GCD shield on the move whenever they want.

[ForsakenRoe]

I think the main issue with Eukrasia is how little it affects. Let's take the four actions it modifies:

Diagnosis is 450p. If we change Eukrasian Diagnosis from '300p, Barrier for 180%' to '450p, Barrier for 120%', the functionality of the action, barrier-wise, remains the same, but the base Diagnosis potency is folded into the action, thereby making Diagnosis unrequired as an action.

Prognosis is 300p. If we change Eukrasian Prognosis from '100p, Barrier for 360%' to '300p, Barrier for 120%', the functionality of the action, barrier-wise, remains the same, but the base Prognosis potency is folded into the action, thereby making Prognosis unrequired as an action.

With these two actions no longer requiring Eukrasian interaction, the only remaining thing Eukrasia would achieve is 'it is how you access your DOT'. And at that point, rather than 'swap Dosis to E.Dosis', it could just as well be another 'press this to apply DOT' button like the other healers have. Point is, what Eukrasia actually 'does', its purpose for being a button on the hotbar, can be invalidated with simple numerical tweaks

This would be far less of a problem if Eukrasia did more than just 'swap button A to button A2', eg if Eukrasian Dosis did something else via Kardia, if Eukrasian Phlegma or Eukrasian Toxikon existed and had different effects on Kardia such as triggering an AOE heal, etc. becuase then Kardia would be a system that has depth enough to set it apart from SCH (who would presumably have more Faerie interaction within their gameplay)

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Eukrasia still do too little today to make SGE anymore distinct. Once again I defer folks to just take a look on PvP SGE's Kardia system and it won't be hard to connect the dots.

Nowadays I just play SGE without using Kardia at all for the giggles. The contents I'm running never warrant the HPS that button provides when I'm vomitting overheals with anything I do. (I die a little inside everytime people scream at me to pop Kardia just because)

High ends? I only recall Kardia being useful and *slightly more* engaging in P3S, not because it's a regen but more because there's a mechanic that actually make me want to swap my Kardia to anybody who's not blue coded: my co-healer.

[Kacho_Nacho]

It will never happen since SE hates healers for no reason.

I don't think it's hate per sec. It's more indifference.

[TheDustyOne]

An important part of my toolkit, just like everything else on my bar.

Just because it's important doesn't stop it from being filler.

Every melee 123 combo is important, but it's still filler in that it's what your press when there's nothing else to press. Burst Shot on Bard is important, but it's still the filler button when you've got nothing else to press. Dosis is the primary attack button for Sage, but you still only press it because there's nothing else to press.

[YarnMage48]

I think the main issue with Eukrasia is how little it affects. Let's take the four actions it modifies:

Diagnosis is 450p. If we change Eukrasian Diagnosis from '300p, Barrier for 180%' to '450p, Barrier for 120%', the functionality of the action, barrier-wise, remains the same, but the base Diagnosis potency is folded into the action, thereby making Diagnosis unrequired as an action.

Prognosis is 300p. If we change Eukrasian Prognosis from '100p, Barrier for 360%' to '300p, Barrier for 120%', the functionality of the action, barrier-wise, remains the same, but the base Prognosis potency is folded into the action, thereby making Prognosis unrequired as an action.

With these two actions no longer requiring Eukrasian interaction, the only remaining thing Eukrasia would achieve is 'it is how you access your DOT'. And at that point, rather than 'swap Dosis to E.Dosis', it could just as well be another 'press this to apply DOT' button like the other healers have. Point is, what Eukrasia actually 'does', its purpose for being a button on the hotbar, can be invalidated with simple numerical tweaks

This would be far less of a problem if Eukrasia did more than just 'swap button A to button A2', eg if Eukrasian Dosis did something else via Kardia, if Eukrasian Phlegma or Eukrasian Toxikon existed and had different effects on Kardia such as triggering an AOE heal, etc. becuase then Kardia would be a system that has depth enough to set it apart from SCH (who would presumably have more Faerie interaction within their gameplay)

So the gist of your new model is to take away the standard Prognosis and Diagnosis, and replace them with skills that incorporate both direct healing and shield. In other words, make them exactly like SCH GCD heals. Then we can change how the DoT's work to make them literally exactly the same as other healers' DoT's.

I'm sorry. What?

You want to make Sage even more like Scholar? The flexibility to switch your GCD between a direct heal and a heal/shield mix is one of Sage's distinctions. Why are you suggesting that SE remove it? Why are you suggesting that the DoT be truly exactly the same as other healers?

If SE did what you're suggesting, the immediate reaction from players would be that "Eukrasian variants was one of the only differences between Scholar and Sage, and now they've taken that away too! Why do they hate healers so much?"

This is exactly what I was getting at before when I pointed out that no matter what SE does, players will still complain.

If you don't like the Eukrasia system, that's fine. It's not for everyone and that's ok. But they did give us something different. If it doesn't fit your playstyle, there are other healers to chose from.

I am just genuinely baffled that after so many posts about how healers are being homogenized, you are suggesting a change that would further homogenize them.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]I am just genuinely baffled that after so many posts about how healers are being homogenized, you are suggesting a change that would further homogenize them.

I think ForsakenRoe was trying to give an example -just how little Eukrasia adds- into SGE's gameplay rather than actually suggesting SE to turn them into even more of a diet-SCH.

The thing is, we try to NOT interact with Eukrasia outside refreshing DoT twice a minute & it's disappointing. Kardia and Eukrasia combined has such comparatively small impact when you compare what the likes of Addersgall system, Panhaima, Haima, Holos, etc can provide for very little trade off. What they need to do should be the other way around: more impactful decision making attached to Kardia & Eukrasia system while toning down the rest in their kits. Addersgall gauge are usually the first in lines of suggestions to be reworked. There's a reason why Addersgall gauge are often meme'd with "They're the same picture"-gag with SCH's Aetherflow. Suspiciously similar effects, suspiciously similar and/or outright same potency, suspiciously same cooldowns, suspiciously same learning level. So? Remove addersgall but ensure its impact are integrated elsewhere---preferably the already existing Eukrasia & Kardion system.

[Shurrikhan]

Ok let's break this down. Dosis III, Eukrasion Dosis III, Dykrasia II, and Eukrasion Dykrasia II adds up to 4 spells. Counting Eukraisa, that's only 3 hotbar spaces to access all 4 of them.

But Eukrasia also impacts heal GCDs. So when you add in Diagnosis, Eukrasion Diagnosis, Prognosis, and Eukrasion Prognosis, that's 8 total spells that only takes up 5 spaces on my hotbar.

So yes. Eukrasia changes the amount of space needed for my GCD skills.

I replied to your discussion of their offensive place in single-target combat. Of those, only Dosis III and Eukrasian Dosis III are relevant, and are analogous to any other filler-DoT pair.

But by all means, let's run your example through more broadly.

Your means of performing your GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 5 keys (Dosis, Dykrasis, Diagnosis, Prognosis, Eukrasia).
SCH's means of performing their GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 6 keys (Broil, Biolysis, Art of War, Adloquiem, Succor, Physick), of which only 5 keys are actually used.
WHM's means of performing their GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 7 keys (Glare, Dia, Holy, Cure II, Regen, Medica, Medica II), of which only 6 keys are actually used.
AST's means of performing their GCD spammable heals and attacks requires 7 keys (Malefic, Combust, Gravity, Benefic II, Aspected Benefic, Helix, Aspected Helix), of which only 5 keys are generally used.

So its savings relative to other kit designs are, in effect... 1 in 32 keys.

And I'm not sure why this needs to be repeated after so many times, but since you're seemingly continuing to interpret critiques of healer same-ish-ness as if said critiques disliked what little distinction exists...

...none of this is to say that Eukrasia is bad. It simply happens to be laughable to say that hitting your DoT once per 30 seconds on SGE feels different just because you hit [2]->[1] instead of the normal [1] instead of just hitting [2] instead of [1] or that hitting your STHeal+ GCD feels different from AST hitting its STHeal+ GCD just because you hit [2]->[3] instead of just [3], etc., let alone that those fractional changes actually allow SGE gameplay to feel distinct from SCH (or even the broader basic healer template altogether).

I.e., that Sage's uniqueness could have been, was implied to be, and should have been far more than what we got.

And people trying to, say, put an [obligatory 1s GCD + 1.5s GCD pair] on a pedestal as if it were sufficiently unique from any [2.5s GCD with identical control and considerations] to make its job feel truly distinct... only makes it harder to get there.