#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Supersnow845]

easiest way to fix that? re-integrate esuna across the game in fights here and there

(joking) and then gaslight the community saying they were there since launch. give it a few months of player infighting and company silence and it'll blow over fine and dandy and people will accept that it's always been this way and we've all just been negligent until now.

Ah I see you are taking the “healers have always been this way” approach of the community gaslighting themselves into believing the opposite of easily verifiable facts

Very smart

[ForsakenRoe]

Edit: But to make a more engaging DPS rotation. SE could give healers a couple more damaging buttons on shorter cooldowns separate from our usual 30 seconds DoT.
I.e. let's say 460 potency attack on a 15s cooldown and 540 potency on 30s cooldown.
Add a channeled 5 seconds spell that pulses damage every second like a Flamethrower on a 60s.

The issue with potencies like that, is that it becomes extremely punishing to do the 'wrong' rotation, and so SE would be deathly allergic to adding such a thing to the game. The idea that a WHM might cast Glare over and over, instead of using these new actions, which leads to enrage (due to the potency lost over the encounter) would come up in interviews. I think the way to go about it is, ironically, the very thing they just removed from the game since the media tour: Eukrasian Dyskrasia, when it stacked with Eukrasian Dosis and was a gain in SingleTarget, was a gain of only 40p over its entire 30s duration. If you lost one tick of it due to boss jumping away/early refresh, then it became completely equal to Dosis 3.

I'd put the potencies on new actions as no more than 50p of a gain over the spammable spell of the Job. That way, casual players (or players of any skill level who happen to misplay) are not excessively punished via Enrage, and yet optimization minded players will have something to optimize around, because it doesn't matter how little potency a gain something is, if something can be a gain, optimizers will optimize (just look at that stuff about locking your framerate on MNK).

As an example, on SGE I'd add two new actions, Neuralgia and Myasthenia, which would be 20p higher than Dosis, and get another 20 potency bonus if you alternate between the two. We have to remember that the skill floor of healers is not 'they spam the spammable' though, it's 'they keep the party alive'. So keeping 'spam the spammable' as being a high % of your output as compared to any 'optimal rotation' with new additions, I think is the best way for SE to implement this kind of stuff. That way, anyone who wants to have the healer gameplay of current day, still has the option to do so and clear stuff just as well as now

Every raid follows a basic formula it minorly changes per raid but generally they all follow the same formulas

Making healing interesting would require the devs to actually put some effort into changing there raid formulas. Which we all know the dev team is lazy and Yoshi P will always use the excuse balancing healing is hard. Well balancing Healing is hard because you designed the entire game to always keep your party at full hp and needing to full heal them within 10 seconds.and every fight is a dps check so healer damage is still needed

Quick and dirty 'solution' to that is to have more 'Barrier checks', like Photon in TEA/Vulcan Burst in UWU. Imagine a raidwide, that does 200 damage flat, and then 1 frame later, does the actual raidwide damage. If you don't block that first 200 with a barrier, then you get some nasty debuff, say a bleed (that is not affected by mitigations, so it's always spicy). The healer then has choice, either Barrier and block the damage (and therefore the debuff), ignore it, take the debuff and power through it, or potentially Esuna comes into play (eg if one healer has an AOE Esuna, maybe that's the 'better' option for them)

[RaevusAstra]

I know people on the forums and the balance love to rag on Xenosys Vex, especially given this whole dungeon debacle, but he just came out of a stream where he personally interviewed people for the cause on the healer strike and tried to understand while giving you guys a platform. I'm curious as to people's thoughts about this given all that's happened so far, especially with other streamer reactions.

[HighlanderClone]

I know people on the forums and the balance love to rag on Xenosys Vex, especially given this whole dungeon debacle, but he just came out of a stream where he personally interviewed people for the cause on the healer strike and tried to understand while giving you guys a platform. I'm curious as to people's thoughts about this given all that's happened so far, especially with other streamer reactions.

lots of discussion on discord

[Morgana96]

That’s the thing we don’t all agree, and to me the original post makes that pretty clear. This is first and foremost an attempt to draw attention to our complaints. We don’t agree on the fix, that’s fine, we agree on the fact that we are sick of being ignored by the devs

The original post refers to itself as "a collective voice" for healer players.

But it isn't. There are those who only agree with some of the things listed, while others don't agree with any of them. Several players who do still enjoy healing in game keep being insulted and belittled as "not real healers" or "fake healer mains" by certain participants/strike supporters. You can't claim to be speaking for all healer players while being rude and condescending to a large number of them. A true collective voice would address their side of things and try to find compromise that everyone could enjoy.

And again, that manifesto being too vague doesn't help at all. It shouldn't be treating Dark Knights like they have the same self sustain as Warriors. It shouldn't be treating Second Wind's 120s cooldown like a genuine threat to a regular GCD heal. These conflations only comes off as a lack of understanding of various job kits outside of their main healers.

If your complaints fail to come off as well thought out and cohesive, everyone - including devs - are going to fail to understand them.

[Sacae]

I know people on the forums and the balance love to rag on Xenosys Vex, especially given this whole dungeon debacle, but he just came out of a stream where he personally interviewed people for the cause on the healer strike and tried to understand while giving you guys a platform. I'm curious as to people's thoughts about this given all that's happened so far, especially with other streamer reactions.

Xeno has been pretty level-headed about this, and he generally has good viewpoints concerning accessability and whatnot that are directly related to this topic. I'm watching the interview right now.

[Flay_wind]

The issue with potencies like that, is that it becomes extremely punishing to do the 'wrong' rotation, and so SE would be deathly allergic to adding such a thing to the game. The idea that a WHM might cast Glare over and over, instead of using these new actions, which leads to enrage (due to the potency lost over the encounter) would come up in interviews. I think the way to go about it is, ironically, the very thing they just removed from the game since the media tour: Eukrasian Dyskrasia, when it stacked with Eukrasian Dosis and was a gain in SingleTarget, was a gain of only 40p over its entire 30s duration. If you lost one tick of it due to boss jumping away/early refresh, then it became completely equal to Dosis 3.

That's once again designing healers around the lowest common denominator. Which is how we got to where we are at today in the first place.
And SE should not be designing healers for harder content around suboptimal play, where ideally everyone should be giving their best and not just Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis spam, because apparently everything extra is too stressful.

[KisaiTenshi]

Ironically, Pokemon games have a hell of a lot more depth than this game does when you get into the competitive scene, it's one of the examples I'd happily give as "easy to learn, hard to master".

It's also something that has been "finished" just from people button mashing (See twitch plays pokemon), so it's really an example of something that merely "Finishing" it is not the goal. Finding all the Pokemon is the real goal, but that turns the game from a 20hr game to a 200hr game.

If it adheres to FF5s job system, can I put Black Magic on my White Mage? How about give my WHM a greatsword? This game does the opposite of FF5s job system in that it's very static, the job is the job and you don't have much say in how it develops, whereas 5 lets you experiment with different passives, bring in new spells/abilities from other jobs, etc.

You could originally. Because it was based on how it worked in Wizardry.

FF1 WHM still could wield hammers, making them good for picking off enemies early game, later it would get Dia for undead enemies and Holy for anything else. It was primarily a healer sure, but it still had offensive capabilities. FF3 gave them Aero and debuffs like Silence. Rosa could wield bows and Porom could Twincast with Palom. FF5 as mentioned earlier you could give them another jobs moveset. Garnet, Eiko, and Yuna were also Summoners. All WHM had some offensive capabilities, and the ones that don't had supporting systems to give them offensive capabilities anyway. The closest to "pure healer" you get is FF1.

All previous FF games also had a melee "ATTACK" action. In this game? Auto attack does less than nothing. Dia only worked on Undead. Only Holy worked on anything. Using Cure or Life on undead was the only way to instant kill undead monsters.

But you were never using the white mage to DPS, it was just a waste of a turn to do so.

SCH has been around since FF3, FF11 as well, and was known for being a user of both Black and White magic. The fact that a legacy job like SCH is now relegated to being a WHM clone (but with shields) already tells me Square doesn't care for tradition and is willing to sideline it for the excuse they call healer design in this game.

Scholar didn't exist in previous FF games, not the "Scholar" we have in this game. The FF3 Scholar literately had just "scan" and "peep". The 3D version gives it some red-mage levels of magic use, but it still was nothing like FF14. The White mage is a staple of FF. The scholar is not.

[TheDustyOne]

All previous FF games also had a melee "ATTACK" action. In this game? Auto attack does less than nothing. Dia only worked on Undead. Only Holy worked on anything. Using Cure or Life on undead was the only way to instant kill undead monsters.

But you were never using the white mage to DPS, it was just a waste of a turn to do so.

If my WHM had nothing to do that turn, then they attacked, wasting a turn would be casting a heal that wasn't needed.

Scholar didn't exist in previous FF games, not the "Scholar" we have in this game. The FF3 Scholar literately had just "scan" and "peep". The 3D version gives it some red-mage levels of magic use, but it still was nothing like FF14. The White mage is a staple of FF. The scholar is not.

That seems rather... a bad point if I'm being honest. Most of the jobs in this game deviate from their origins in some form or another; Warrior can only use Axes in this game while in all other FF games it could use a variety of weapons, is this Warrior not a real Warrior now? Should we rename it to Berserker because it has more in common with that job? DRG in XI had a pet dragon while all the offline ones didn't, was XI DRG not DRG in that game? How about SMN pre-EW? Was that not SMN because it had DoTs?

The jobs are allowed to deviate from the norm with their gameplay to an extent, as long as they still retain their identity, XIV SCH is meant to evoke III and XI SCH with its visual design and lore, XI and XIV both describe it as a tactician, and yet its gameplay has no resemblence to it outside a handful of spell names like Adloquium. Arguably, I'd say it fulfilled its mechanical identity requirement back in SB; multiple different DoTs for its "Black Magic" and of course the heals it has for "White Magic". Now it's so lop-sided that it's largely a WHM but with a different visual, it's lost its gameplay identity.

[Kohashi]

you could either fix this by giving healers tank like rotation so damage optimisation becomes an actual factor, you could cut oGCD healing so organisation of GCD healing becomes a factor, or up the damage so the same as option 2 is achieved

How would that even work? Tanks are specially designed to be able to hold aggro and soak incoming damage inately. Their tankiness comes primarily from the gear they have and their stats. Mitigation is done generally when a tank buster is incoming and those are spaced out and timed.

Also while adding a couple of buttons wouldn't hurt but, I don't want to have a DPS equivalent rotation, be responsible for everyone, and do mechanics. Healer is the most complex job already due to the multiple things that you need to juggle and keep track of. Also generally there are very few people who are consistent enough in a raid. The vast majority of groups make plenty of mistakes in execution which means as a healer you always have to re-adapt and re-consider what the next set of actions will be. Healing is very fluid. you never do or use the same spell every single time at the same point in time.