#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Rithy255]

Why would removing tank sustain over-encourage 1H3D, neither the DPS nor the healer can control agro which is a big advantage of why current meta involves 1T3D rather than 4D. Regardless didn’t you yourself say that these sort of off comps should be encouraged? Why is it suddenly a problem if 1H3D replaced 1T3D as the most common off comp? (Even though it won’t)

And again for the 3rd time removing tank sustain won’t fix healers but nor does it not fixing healers justify not removing it because it will make healers relatively better. This circles back to my earlier point. You say “if you do this I’ll be more bored as a tank”. Why does your stance matter more than mine? If you want healers to be allowed to have fun tanks have to give up something. What specifically are you as the tank side willing to give up? Simply changing nothing but giving healers DPS options doesn’t fix healers either, tanks proverbially have to give up something somewhere

It would 100% encourage 1H3Dps in speedruns because whatever does the most damage is what's most important, the main reason why 4dps isn't dungeon meta is because you still need some level of sustain and survivability just not much hencec why you don't need 1/1/2 you just need any 1/3 comp.

I've also said at this rate a thousand times over tanks should give up self survivability and mitigation and some sustain if you even read what i said in the other reply I mentioned that tanks need to give up a bit of their value in mitigation and sustain instances but this should be alongside some wider changes like increasing how much damage you take from all encounters.

I haven't suggested simply changing nothing, I've suggested it isn't tank's having some forms of healing that is the actual issue with healer's it's very easy to point at, because people think "oh hey tanks are doing my job, the way to fix that is just to remove tanks being able to do that!" without actually maybe considering that isn't really a proper solution, your instead punishing tank players for having those tools by basically wanting to fully remove one way a tank can support a group.

Tanks shouldn't need to give up core abilities to their identity so "healers can be fun" if a DPS is performing well we shouldn't just remove it's burst damage buttons, we should scale down its damage, if tanks survivability and sustain are too strong then we should scale it down, not remove it entirely, I don't get how this is a hard concept to understand.

Scaling down tanks proportionality will always be a better solution then just removing sustain & target healing. also stuff like making bosses and AOE do more damage, making sure gear scaling doesn't make any content trivialised, giving healers more to do in downtime (yes healers don't need just dps buttons but extra dps buttons are also something that would make them more fun). All this would make healer play and feel a lot better then just blindly removing sustain and calling it a day, which again is a lose/lose.

[Supersnow845]

“It would still encourage 1H3D as whoever does more damage is preferred”

Again why would this bias 1H3D. Tanks do more damage and healers can’t control agro. Between messy mobs, cast cancelations by autos and the healer basically being a cure bot you still aren’t doing much with 1H3D. That comp is truly a meme comp

And like I’ve said whether you up damage or lower sustain you achieve the same thing. Because either way is a nerf, if you get hit for 20k and heal 10k then I nerf you to heal 5k on a 20k hit it’s exactly the same as if I increased the damage to 40k and you healed 10k. This is the problem, you are trying to build future damage profiles on the shaky foundation of the current tank sustain which also varies wildly with the competency of the playerbase. A flat lower profile for sustain is just easier and better designed. I know you said certain elements should be toned down but it really amounts to needing a flat nerf. This does not necessitate removal but it necessitates a nerf to the point the HEALER is doing the majority of the healing

Because since you still don’t seem to understand I’m not actually advocating for complete removal of sustain. I’m pointing out the flaw in your logic that if it’s unfair to remove sustain to benefit the healers at the expense of the tanks why is the reverse not true. That keeping sustain to the benefit of the tanks and detriment of the healers is also unfair I’m gonna embolden this entire section because if you only read one part please read this. My point isn’t full removal of sustain. My point is it’s flawed to act like removal of sustain is unfair to tanks when the reverse situation is already currently happening to the healers. Because while roundabout solutions can help this problem simply cannot be fixed if tanks continue to want to be able to sustain themselves

Because as I’ve tried to explain tanks have to give somewhere. If you implement your solution (which admittedly is not bad) you will feel noticeably weaker and more reliant on the healer. Your heals will feel paltry and the damage will be high. If the tank playerbase can’t accept that then that’s a wider issue

[ForsakenRoe]

Another aspect to consider with 1H3D and whether it'd be inferior to a nerfed 1T3D (it would, by quite a margin) is the amount of damage that comes in, vs how much we can deal with it. The reason we do 1T3D is not just because the Tank can heal the amount of damage being dealt, but they're also naturally reducing the amount of damage they need to heal, by A: being a Tank and having a passive for it, and B: using cooldowns to mitigate damage.

Healers have much less access to %mit of that kind, their gear has less Defence/MagicDefence stat on it, and so while you could do 1H3D runs, the 'normally a 20k autoattack' from the last boss in Yuyu-thingy new dungeon against a Tank with 200k max HP, becomes 35k per autoattack on a Healer who has 125kish max HP. This is enough to often interrupt your cast times, making healing harder (and making doing damage harder), the extra damage means you run out of 'free' healing tools like OGCDs or Lilies faster, and eventually you're down to using GCD heals that cost you damage. Even then, those cost MP, and you run an actual risk of running out by using them too much

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Another aspect to consider with 1H3D and whether it'd be inferior to a nerfed 1T3D (it would, by quite a margin) is the amount of damage that comes in, vs how much we can deal with it. The reason we do 1T3D is not just because the Tank can heal the amount of damage being dealt, but they're also naturally reducing the amount of damage they need to heal, by A: being a Tank and having a passive for it, and B: using cooldowns to mitigate damage.

Healers have much less access to %mit of that kind, their gear has less Defence/MagicDefence stat on it, and so while you could do 1H3D runs, the 'normally a 20k autoattack' from the last boss in Yuyu-thingy new dungeon against a Tank with 200k max HP, becomes 35k per autoattack on a Healer who has 125kish max HP. This is enough to often interrupt your cast times, making healing harder (and making doing damage harder), the extra damage means you run out of 'free' healing tools like OGCDs or Lilies faster, and eventually you're down to using GCD heals that cost you damage. Even then, those cost MP, and you run an actual risk of running out by using them too much

Additionally, if your 1H/3D has hard hitter casters like PCT and BLM, they're most likely not going to output their maximum damage potential, especially if they're top in the aggro list due to the same casting interruption.

The existence of tanks in such runs really add a huge amount of stability in a way that lets the party control where the damage's going to be directed at while also having much better means to absorb said damage. Healers can never bring the same to the table. 1H/3D is more of meme than 'meta' for a reason.

[Maltothoris]

Indeed, there are too many factors that can affect a 1h3d run which are heavily mitigated by tanks in 1t3d groups.

Also who wants to bet on them in either the live letter or in the following interviews that they will say that the healing will be harder?

[Connor]

Indeed, there are too many factors that can affect a 1h3d run which are heavily mitigated by tanks in 1t3d groups.

Also who wants to bet on them in either the live letter or in the following interviews that they will say that the healing will be harder?

I bet 1 Gil (I’m poor) they’ll give us a ‘healing will be harder as we move to more Totally Unique (tm) FFXIV content’. Then the unique harder content is another Harrowing Hell type mechanic in one fight of the next raid series lol

[Xurtan]

I am so incredibly tired. Having FRU cleared without healers was just. A hell of a nail in a dead horse. And it genuinely would not surprise me to see 'healing will be harder' and it just be the same level of nothingness, because that's all it ever is.

[Aravell]

Funny thing is, they haven't strictly been lying about higher healing requirements. Fights like P10S and the more recent M3S has some pretty good healing requirements.

The problem is that they also increased our healing output as a party, so that just ends up negating the healing requirement increase and we basically feel like nothing has changed. What they need to do is nerf our total healing output as a party so the increase to healing required is actually felt by the player.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Funny thing is, they haven't strictly been lying about higher healing requirements. Fights like P10S and the more recent M3S has some pretty good healing requirements.

The problem is that they also increased our healing output as a party, so that just ends up negating the healing requirement increase and we basically feel like nothing has changed. What they need to do is nerf our total healing output as a party so the increase to healing required is actually felt by the player.

I agree. It may sound counter-intuitive but it is one of the best solutions to the "healer problem." Nerf the mitigations, nerf the heals, and they'll both become more meaningful.

[Aravell]

I agree. It may sound counter-intuitive but it is one of the best solutions to the "healer problem." Nerf the mitigations, nerf the heals, and they'll both become more meaningful.

I wouldn't say it's counter-intuitive, there's nothing saying that our heals need to get stronger as we get stronger.

Having additional effects/interactions or having more tools to deal with different situations is also how healers can get stronger. It would also deal with potency creep if they were creative with skill expansion instead of just increasing potency and calling it a day.