#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kohashi]

Doing a run where you have two of the same healer would be quite the meme. But I have seen logs for such runs uploaded, so clearly some people try to take on the challenge. It is quite undisputable IMO, that if you were to try for whatever reason, you'd have far more success/be able to clear far more, with less overgearing required, with 2 ASTS than you would with 2 WHMs. Being able to rotate between 4 total CU uses per 2mins, plus having 40s of uptime on Neutral Sect, and 2 Sun Signs between them, means that AST simply has far more versatility in how it mitigates. And that is the crux of WHM's issues. The lack of mitigation options means that the SCH or SGE is forced into using a more rigid plan of where to use what. With an AST in a coordinated environment, the SCH/SGE has the potential to say 'okay, you can CU this, which frees me up to move my stuff from here, to this part instead'.

It's maybe more comfy, but not all that much. Also, those meme runs are not done by prog teams or random people in PF. They are done in very controlled environments by very knowledgeable people.

Only sometimes, is 'AST/WHM there to provide HP and restore what is left after shield healers do their stuff for the mechanic', because sometimes, the shield healer ends up doing the HP restoration too. For example, I have a couple fo reclear logs that end up looking like this:

My dude, please....



Your synergy with the WHM was 0. You were just pressing buttons with 0 regard of your co-healer or plan which is understandable since it is PF.

Also, comparing M8s with M5s is really unfair since M8s has vastly more damage and offers a lot more healing opportunities. People are already better geared and don't take as much damage in M5s.

[ForsakenRoe]

My dude, please....

Your synergy with the WHM was 0. You were just pressing buttons with 0 regard of your co-healer or plan which is understandable since it is PF.

Also, comparing M8s with M5s is really unfair since M8s has vastly more damage and offers a lot more healing opportunities. People are already better geared and don't take as much damage in M5s.

Ough do we really have to do this, this early in the morning?

- Yes, I pressed actual barrier GCDs. I do not know why. Maybe I was several pulls deep and tired of wiping to things, maybe I misplayed a couple of places and had to panic-barrier to make up for the misplayed mit, maybe I just didn't care enough to tryhard on that pull because I had no energy that day. I dunno. But the portion of the GCD that is being called 'overheal' here is the healing part, not the barrier part. So, yeh, I applied barriers (to be safe), while the party was already at full HP. Sue me.

- Haimatinon and Panhaimatinon refer to the healing upon the effect's expiration. Are you saying I should have known that my cohealer was going to heal everyone to full before they expired, and not used those actions for their primary purpose (mitigation)?

- Holos gets used for mitigation, not my problem that SE decided to attach a 300p heal to it. What, am I meant to say 'oh wait I'll not use Holos for the 300p barrier and 10% mit here, because everyone's full HP already. Wouldn't want to overheal!'

- Physis is a 60s CD and is completely free. It also amplifies the potency of all the other healing tools. It'd be stupid not to press it, even if it does partially end up as overheal. If it does end up as overheal, it's likely because of an overzealous cohealer topping everyone off before the HOT does its work.

- Pneuma is damage neutral. The first can't really be considered 'overheal' (it was 46% overheal on the GNB, and only the GNB, for some reason), the second was a Swiftcast-Pneuma to try and save some people after a B-Side laser, it barely kept me and one other alive but the MCH died due to being at a lower HP amount after the B-Side than me or the BLM. Maybe gear difference, I don't remember. Either way, I LB'd after it happened to avoid the Weaknesses. Third Pneuma was right at the end of the fight in between the final two Celebrate Good Times raidwides (going into enrage) just to make sure we were all full HP to close out the kill, and considering I threw Zoe on it, I can only assume I was in a state of 'get me out of this damn fight' at the time.

- Philosophia was used going into Funky Floor, to heal after the damage of Disco Inferno without needing to worry about my distance from allies (so I can start making my way towards my spotlight). Once everyone was full HP, yes, additional procs of Eudaimonia were overheal. To avoid that would require not pressing my damage buttons. The second was dumped at the end of the fight, because why not. The Pneuma at the same time was probably enough, but it's a free button and the fight's ending anyway so why not.

Also of note is that I used like, half of the amount of potential uses of these actions. I could have had 3 Philosophia uses, I got 2 (and one was a meme at the end). I could have had 4 uses of Pneuma, I had 3. I could have had another Panhaima somewhere, or another 7 Soterias, or I could have actually pressed Krasis even a single time, but I did not. I used my kit at like, half its potential output, and it's getting me '0 synergy with the WHM' talk.

If this comment is true:

Their entire existence, AST or WHM, is to fill in gaps. AST or WHM will always be secondary and in the background, while shields are the main healers. Even if you are AST, will will NEVER be the main healer. You exist to provide HP and restore whatever is left after shield healers did their stuff for the mechanic.

Surely that means that it's the WHM that had '0 synergy' with me, given that a lot of the SGE kit takes time to apply its healing (Haima/Pan expiration, Eudaimonia procs, Physis, Kerakeia)? I did 'my stuff', and then the WHM occasionally pressed something like Rapture, or Assize, and oops now the delayed healing effect of the SGE is considered overhealing. Though saying that, the WHM also had only 6 casts of Rapture, so their HPS could have also been FAR higher than it was. They weren't doing the 'prep Misery to use in raidbuffs' thing, and if they were, both me and them would have presumably had even more overhealing.


If you want the M8S example, here you go:

Hmm those overheal numbers look pretty comparable, despite the extra damage and more healing required on average, I'd say. I just happened to press the GCD barrier more times, but still had less overheal with it. I imagine the 'overwritten' ones come from places like the Tracking Tremors (applying a new one before the stack mark takes the old one off) or the mit check right after the adds. Also:



Again, didn't use all of my everything, else my overheal would be even higher again.

Lastly, both me and my coheal in this run got purples on damage (me 81/them 94) and grey/green on healing (me 21/them 27). Could coordination/'synergy' be higher? Sure. But it was again a PF, and everyone just wants to get their reclears done and move on. Even so, I'd say that us both having sub-30 Healing parses means that we pretty effectively divided the healing requirements between us, but still, I had more in the tank that I could have used (which would have also ended up as overheal).

Overheal isn't necessarily 'bad', unless it causes another problem down the line. For example, using an Indom on SCH that is 100% overheal, bad, because that could have been an Energy Drain. Using an Ixochole on SGE that is 100% overheal, not only is it 'not bad' (assuming that you don't need the Addersgall for anything else) and you're not punished at all (because it costs you no damage to use), it actually slightly rewards you, because it gives you 700MP back. Wasting Addersgall on pure overheal, sometimes, is actually mandatory for your MP economy, which is a bit weird a design IMO but that's how SE's gone and made it

And why are you feeding my logs into the 'you did this and this wrong' machine anyway? Next time please at least have the courtesy to check the log yourself for my mistakes instead of outsourcing it

[Lorika]

Like I said WHM relies more heavily on its partner than just about any other pair of classes. WHM is good at pure healing which is basically never needed and bad at mitigation which is always needed. Having to heavily rely on the shield healer doesn’t make it viable, it just increases the stress on the shield healer. WHM simply doesn’t have enough mitigation to compensate for the fact that healers in this game are basically glorified mitigators.

Well a quick and dirty fix would be to have 10% mit on Asylum instead of the useless 10% curative power (like we don't have enough healing power already <.<) and reduce the CD to 60s.

[BigCheez]

Well a quick and dirty fix would be to have 10% mit on Asylum instead of the useless 10% curative power (like we don't have enough healing power already <.<) and reduce the CD to 60s.

Yeah, more homogenisation is definitely the answer. Just make asylum identical to kerachole/soil.

[Lorika]

Yeah, more homogenisation is definitely the answer. Just make asylum identical to kerachole/soil.

At least it would be something....Because, as it stand, what the WHM do, all the other healer job can do it better (except for some very niche things)

[AmiableApkallu]

At least it would be something....Because, as it stand, what the WHM do, all the other healer job can do it better (except for some very niche things)

I feel like this is one of those instances where I need to highlight my previous thoughts [1, 2]:

There are times when I feel like SGE is what you get when what you wanted is a WHM that hasn't been constrained by being the purest of "pure" healers, but instead you need to shoehorn the job into being a "barrier" healer.

EDIT: In terms of gameplay, I mean. The aesthetics are obviously worlds apart.

Let me elaborate: In the context of FFXIV's current encounter design...

No one has ever accused WHM of being the bestest of "pure" healers, nor has anyone accused of SGE of being the bestest "barrier" healer. On the other hand, people have accused WHM of lacking in barriers, and SGE of putting out too much regens/HP.

Take SGE, delete Kardia, rename (Pan)Haima as Regenerative Stoneskin/Protect (or whatever, I'm bad at names), smoosh what's left into current WHM, and... I think that might make for a reasonable jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none healer.

And that, I think, is perfectly fitting for a healer that you can pick up at Lv.1 and take through the MSQ and Be Viable in Content(tm), while being in keeping with previous Final Fantasy games where the only healer was... a white mage (or close derivative).

Like, WHM doesn't need to be Meta(tm) or The Best(tm). It just needs something more to its healing kit other than, "lol, I'll fix HP bars... assuming we're not all dead when {the mechanic} resolves."

[BigCheez]

At least it would be something....Because, as it stand, what the WHM do, all the other healer job can do it better (except for some very niche things)

It would be something but it wouldn't be something good. They need to go back to drawing board and figure out what each job should excel at because having them all do the same thing makes for an incredibly shallow and boring game.

[Alice_Rivers]

I do find it frustrating as a WHM main that sages in particular appear incapable of co-healing, they either seem to do nothing or everything with little to no in between.

[yesnt]

I do find it frustrating as a WHM main that sages in particular appear incapable of co-healing, they either seem to do nothing or everything with little to no in between.

Can't speak for those who do nothing, but for the latter, my excuse is that I am often just bored.

[Supersnow845]

SGE just has so much pointless healing it’s easier on the SGE’s part to basically pretend like they are solo healing 90% of the time

At least SCH likely has go change a bit of their plan if the regen healer decides they want to fall asleep