Are Ultimates a major contributor to Job Design issues?

[BigCheez]

Talking about QA is getting around the point which was that changes like making esuna instant cast, changing nastrond, giving astro extra light speed, giving black mage extra leylines, making jobs fit into the 2 minute window like PLD, all seem to be related to high end raiding exclusively.
Rotations and balance are changed specifically for 1-2 duties at the high end. It completely disrupts everyone below that point just because they really need to have things function a specific way for their one new special high end duty they're pushing this patch.

It's annoying and shows a lack of care about how balance and changes affect people other than hardcore raiders. It's not that things shouldn't be balanced and fun for high end players but they can't keep tossing away any care about fun and balance for anything below savage over and over again and expect casual players to like it.
This is not an enjoyable or sustainable way of balancing or thinking about your game. Constantly catering to one type of player exclusively and the other players just have to deal with the fallout of it over and over. I don't want my rotation changed and have to relearn a job because it did slightly poorer in a savage fight and had to be compeltely redone to fit into the 2 minute meta of raiding. I don't want my favorite job of White Mage to perpetually get lackluster new abilities and updates because "You know cure 3 is broken in ultimate, WHM is sooo good in this new ultimate fight".

I want the jobs I play to be fun in the content I play and that shouldn't be such a hard ask to SE, provided they actually play their game at all levels.

When have jobs been changed specifically for specific pieces of high-end content? Esuna becoming an instant cast is the only time I can remember this happening in recent years and I'm not sure how that could reduce someone's enjoyment of the game in any way. Generally, when a job is changed, it's because it doesn't function well within the wider scope of the game. It doesn't have anything to do with specific pieces of high-end content.

[Buttobi]

When have jobs been changed specifically for specific pieces of high-end content? Esuna becoming an instant cast is the only time I can remember this happening in recent years and I'm not sure how that could reduce someone's enjoyment of the game in any way. Generally, when a job is changed, it's because it doesn't function well within the wider scope of the game. It doesn't have anything to do with specific pieces of high-end content.

Paladin in the middle of Endwalker got a full rework because it didn't fit into the current 2 minute rotation design. The 2 minute rotation is only really relevant in higher level raiding. Old paladin functioned completely fine outside of that content.

[Valence]

When have jobs been changed specifically for specific pieces of high-end content? Esuna becoming an instant cast is the only time I can remember this happening in recent years and I'm not sure how that could reduce someone's enjoyment of the game in any way. Generally, when a job is changed, it's because it doesn't function well within the wider scope of the game. It doesn't have anything to do with specific pieces of high-end content.

They inflated most healing and mitigation abilities to ludicrous ranges to accommodate for P10S, and further continued to water down any tactical consideration tied to the battle system.

[Kohashi]

They inflated most healing and mitigation abilities to ludicrous ranges to accommodate for P10S, and further continued to water down any tactical consideration tied to the battle system.

I doubt it, but they did expand the range of some abilities. This happened because they wanted to experiment with different arena designs, and p10 was the first to fall under that category. It was a pretty common occurrence for DPS to die after Divinding Wings 2, especially if mits were missing or healers didn't sprint. I wish we had Aetherial shift back then...LOL.

[Valence]

I doubt it, but they did expand the range of some abilities. This happened because they wanted to experiment with different arena designs, and p10 was the first to fall under that category. It was a pretty common occurrence for DPS to die after Divinding Wings 2, especially if mits were missing or healers didn't sprint. I wish we had Aetherial shift back then...LOL.

P10S didn't need those changes and neither did anything else, change my mind (I can't speak for TOP though, haven't done it).

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

P10S didn't need those changes and neither did anything else, change my mind (I can't speak for TOP though, haven't done it).

I don't think we need any of the range extension in P10S either.

Few instances when healers had to be away from the DPS to resolve mech were very easily solved if the healer was able to figure out who they need to pre-shield/regen whoever's breaking the tether before moving to resolve their own mechanic responsibilities.

[Supersnow845]

I doubt it, but they did expand the range of some abilities. This happened because they wanted to experiment with different arena designs, and p10 was the first to fall under that category. It was a pretty common occurrence for DPS to die after Divinding Wings 2, especially if mits were missing or healers didn't sprint. I wish we had Aetherial shift back then...LOL.

If people missed mitigation that’s a positioning issue that’s on the party to fix, not just call it unfixable and make all bubbles raidwide heals

[Kohashi]

If people missed mitigation that’s a positioning issue that’s on the party to fix, not just call it unfixable and make all bubbles raidwide heals

In theory, yes, practically, it tells me you never did the fight, yet you comment.

So let me explain. Aside from the big damage that the initial hit was doing, the person tasked with breaking the webs would also get a heavy dot. Unless you had a healer on the DPS platform, the likelihood of them dying was pretty high (even with mits), especially early in the tier when you did not have BiS nor echo.

On top of it, the entire fight was a healer check.

@Valence
"P10S didn't need those changes and neither did anything else, change my mind (I can't speak for TOP though, haven't done it)."

It's impossible to change somebody's made-up mind nor do I really care all that much. While you are clearly the best person in the universe who can do every single mechanic flawlessly and without a sweat, the reality was completely different in PF and with average people doing that fight. Even if you are that good, the fights are never designed for the 0.01% of people but for the average who also makes a lot of mistakes.

PS: please join my re-clear parties. I am sick and tired to re-prog every single damn week, M3s and m4s with ppl in pf that can't still do those stupid fights after so many damn months.

[Supersnow845]

In theory, yes, practically, it tells me you never did the fight, yet you comment.

So let me explain. Aside from the big damage that the initial hit was doing, the person tasked with breaking the webs would also get a heavy dot. Unless you had a healer on the DPS platform, the likelihood of them dying was pretty high (even with mits), especially early in the tier when you did not have BiS nor echo.

On top of it, the entire fight was a healer check.

@Valence
"P10S didn't need those changes and neither did anything else, change my mind (I can't speak for TOP though, haven't done it)."

It's impossible to change somebody's made-up mind nor do I really care all that much. While you are clearly the best person in the universe who can do every single mechanic flawlessly and without a sweat, the reality was completely different in PF and with average people doing that fight. Even if you are that good, the fights are never designed for the 0.01% of people but for the average who also makes a lot of mistakes.

PS: please join my re-clear parties. I am sick and tired to re-prog every single damn week, M3s and m4s with ppl in pf that can't still do those stupid fights after so many damn months.

“It tells me you didn’t do the fight”

It’s really easy to act like you have a point when you can just accuse others of not doing the fight.

You do not need stupidly large bubbles for P10S unless you were stingy on heals that stuck to the person needing healing, as to the point you directed towards valence acting like simplification is always justified because it makes harder content more accessible is just end endless self perpetuating cycle

And let’s say you actually did need the giant bubbles (you don’t), 1 savage fight is not justification to completely alter something as fundamental as bubble size to make it so ridiculous as to be comical

[Kohashi]

If strats were about sometimes getting roles split between the two platforms due to role stacks, stacks would not kill you. Healers could preshield the party. Support could pre mitigate. Healers could heal everybody once they were back mid as well, since nothing was literally going over HP threshold until then. Those mechanics were primarily body checks before anything, like most mechanics in this fight except HH. Alternatively platforms could also be made all light party based (see hector) if one really needed anyway. I'd actually kill to have funky arena layouts again where it's not just about a 8 man stack to heal and mitigate for once. I do miss Alex 4 or Alex 12 for this for example.

yes yes, all theory and none of the practice. Sure you could do that and yet they would still die especially mages. And mind you Dividing Wings 2 came right after Bonds 3 and PF could never do that shit clean... like ever.

As for Hector, he also had DPS right, and support left, so I am not sure what exactly you mean by light parties. Please link me to the raidplan/ video where he suggest Light parties or where this was done in such a manner.

In theory, you could do it since you have 1 DPS and 1 support picked, in reality, it would have been a shit show with people having to adjust based on prio. (snek memes prio much? and P8s trauma dumping that PF could also never get right?)

“It tells me you didn’t do the fight”

It’s really easy to act like you have a point when you can just accuse others of not doing the fight.

No offense but you are talking out of your ass now. Perhaps you did P10 normal but it was nothing like that the savage counterpart. P10s was a strong healer check. If you are up for the challenge and you think your comically large bubble would have covered all you needed, please consider doing Min Ilvl no Echo prog in P10S and get back to me after.

Also based on how you post and how pro you are, it should be a piece of cake no?