Please let us keep our abilities on sync down

[Merrigan]

There was also a game that I played (can't remember which) that allowed you to share the quest you are doing. The person would also get it and see the objectives, requirements, and everything tied to the quest allowing you to help your friend. However, if you already completed the quest once, you won't get the full rewards for it.

Swtor ? (need more characters, blblblblblblb)

[programcanaan]

Dynamic Difficulty scaling would be rather nice. Let people use the abilities they earned and at the same time make them have to give more effort for slightly better performance. From a progression and overworld standpoint ESO is a good example of this.

[Kohashi]

Swtor ? (need more characters, blblblblblblb)

Aaah yes!! that was it! It's been a while since I've played that but I think that was an awesome feature.

[Mikey_R]

I don't think people quite realise how strong things actually are when compared to low level.

I done a calculation in this post here to highlight it. Granted, this is for PLD before the rework, but other jobs are going to have similar situations.

If I want to use a more recent example, again, PLD. I just tested this and I can kill a bat in Sastasha in 9 GCDs using only single target actions and no FoF. Adding up the potency for 2 combos (Fast Blade > Riot Blade) and then 1 Fast Blade, that is a total potency of 1790 to kill that bat.

Fast forward to level 100 potencies, that same bat would die in 7 GCDs using the same rotation. But PLD has access to more attacks, the combo isn't only 2 GCDs long any more. 1 full combo then Atonement + Supplication is enough to kill, which is 5 GCDs, but you still have a Divine Might Holy Spirit and Sepulchre, which, just with those 2, takes off about 60% of an enemies health. This is also before we take into account buffs like FoF or the insane damage locked behind Imperator.

As another example, BLM's Fire 1 in Sastasha is 252 potency after AF1, at level 100, with all the traits and AF3 is 556 potency, but wait, you don't use Fire 1, that has been replaced with Paradox, that would come out to 892 potency and that is without AF3 as I don't think that affects it, but you do spam Fire 4, 988 potency, yes, it takes longer to cast, but you are still doing close to 4 times the damage of the basic Fire 1 spell.

You can look at any job and see similar trends across the potencies and, it is all well and good saying, just reduce the potency, but where are you going to reduce the potency from? For melees, you could make the averages of your combos the same, but that makes the start of your combo weaker and the end stronger than the low level and doesn't take into account the massive burst potential. All a low level PLD can do in FoF is Fast Blade > Riot Blade, a level 100 is slapping Goring Blade and the Confiteor combo, plus extra oGCDs.

Which is another thing, oGCDs. With the vast array of ways they increase damage, not all of them directly potency related, it makes it even harder to just use some universal scaling. Monk doesn't get Riddle of Fire until 68, that is an extra 15% damage for 20 seconds every minute, which then later gives them access to Fire's Reply, for even more potency.

This is not something that is as simple as people make it out to be, you have to remember, we aren't just balancing level 100 against content lower than them, it is also lower levels having to have the balance applied to levels lower than them as well. It is a monumental task that just isn't worth it when the sync does the job just fine. This is also before we take into account defensives and healing.

Now, this isn't to say the low level kits cannot be reworked to make them more engaging, they should and this should be the route taken. Plus, adding in more traits like Melee Mastery, that just increase the potencies of things can help keep the low level scaled properly and avoid the potency creep that used to happen.

[Buttobi]

Is it not possible to have all potencies reduced by a certain percentage in lower level dungeons? This would require a lot of testing and finetuning but if you do a flat percentage decrease on all damage dealt would that not mean that having all abilities in lower level dungeons be possible? Maybe I am too stupid to see why this would not work so I am genuinely wondering if this is not a feasible solution.

[AvoSturmfaust]

Is it not possible to have all potencies reduced by a certain percentage in lower level dungeons? This would require a lot of testing and finetuning but if you do a flat percentage decrease on all damage dealt would that not mean that having all abilities in lower level dungeons be possible? Maybe I am too stupid to see why this would not work so I am genuinely wondering if this is not a feasible solution.

It would work,but its just something you cant do from day to another day, its something which needs a lot of playtesting etc

take as example wow,wow has in my opinion the best way how syncing content works,but its still not flawless

i think square can do it but it will take time effort and a lot of issues with it, and lets be real people will start to complain 5s after it would be released instead of waiting for bugfixes etc

[Shougun]

I don't think people quite realise how strong things actually are when compared to low level. I done a calculation in this post here to highlight it. Granted, this is for PLD before the rework, but other jobs are going to have similar situations. If I want to use a more recent example, again, PLD. I just tested this and I can kill a bat in Sastasha in 9 GCDs using only single target actions and no FoF. Adding up the potency for 2 combos (Fast Blade > Riot Blade) and then 1 Fast Blade, that is a total potency of 1790 to kill that bat. Fast forward to level 100 potencies, that same bat would die in 7 GCDs using the same rotation. But PLD has access to more attacks, the combo isn't only 2 GCDs long any more. 1 full combo then Atonement + Supplication is enough to kill, which is 5 GCDs, but you still have a Divine Might Holy Spirit and Sepulchre, which, just with those 2, takes off about 60% of an enemies health. This is also before we take into account buffs like FoF or the insane damage locked behind Imperator. As another example, BLM's Fire 1 in Sastasha is 252 potency after AF1, at level 100, with all the traits and AF3 is 556 potency, but wait, you don't use Fire 1, that has been replaced with Paradox, that would come out to 892 potency and that is without AF3 as I don't think that affects it, but you do spam Fire 4, 988 potency, yes, it takes longer to cast, but you are still doing close to 4 times the damage of the basic Fire 1 spell. You can look at any job and see similar trends across the potencies and, it is all well and good saying, just reduce the potency, but where are you going to reduce the potency from? For melees, you could make the averages of your combos the same, but that makes the start of your combo weaker and the end stronger than the low level and doesn't take into account the massive burst potential. All a low level PLD can do in FoF is Fast Blade > Riot Blade, a level 100 is slapping Goring Blade and the Confiteor combo, plus extra oGCDs. Which is another thing, oGCDs. With the vast array of ways they increase damage, not all of them directly potency related, it makes it even harder to just use some universal scaling. Monk doesn't get Riddle of Fire until 68, that is an extra 15% damage for 20 seconds every minute, which then later gives them access to Fire's Reply, for even more potency. This is not something that is as simple as people make it out to be, you have to remember, we aren't just balancing level 100 against content lower than them, it is also lower levels having to have the balance applied to levels lower than them as well. It is a monumental task that just isn't worth it when the sync does the job just fine. This is also before we take into account defensives and healing. Now, this isn't to say the low level kits cannot be reworked to make them more engaging, they should and this should be the route taken. Plus, adding in more traits like Melee Mastery, that just increase the potencies of things can help keep the low level scaled properly and avoid the potency creep that used to happen.

Is it not possible to have all potencies reduced by a certain percentage in lower level dungeons? This would require a lot of testing and finetuning but if you do a flat percentage decrease on all damage dealt would that not mean that having all abilities in lower level dungeons be possible? Maybe I am too stupid to see why this would not work so I am genuinely wondering if this is not a feasible solution.

It's not 'easy' to get it to feel as best as you can, but it is irrelevant how big the potency was because you'll be snacking it all with reductions. Yes I'm aware some potencies are big. This feature is seen in other MMOs, so we've seen it at work. This isn't voodoo math. I still strongly doubt they will have long lasting value in the idea of making the kits feel good at lower levels by redoing them. They have already shown it doesn't work essentially, each expansion it wrecks into lower content. They'll do all this work and then a couple expansions, poof.


While syncing isn't easy, manually crafting each and every job is a much much larger undertaking. Creating a quality sync will last longer, be very likely easier, and the tools developed there can be used in other situations.


Whatever testing a sync will take will pale in comparison to redoing every kit to feel better at lower levels and then touching them again when your expansion smacks it all.


The easiest is to do nothing, but we're saying that feels really bad / boring.

[Clockworks]

100% impossible to do yeah, it's not like any other game did it... cough WoW... cough.

People are so used to mediocrity in this game and with this company that they see any kind of improvement and QoL as impossible to do because "muh old engine" "muh old codes", stop finding excuses for SE.

[Deniza]

As many already pointed out there is a lot of balancing that needs to be happen. But that shouldn't be something to scare away from implementing a better gaming experience when helping out friends or doing low level rouletts.
At this moment from what I read many are not doing low level content or having a bad time doing such content.
Meanwhile when I remember playing SWToR which also was mentioned as an MMO that managed doing such a sync system quite well. I never had any issues with doing low level content. And when I was leveling another character I didn't have any issues with my lack of abilities either, even as tank. So it surely is possible as many other MMO's proved.
It will never be perfect, but how it is now is also not perfect. People are refusing to engage in low level content. People who could help new players get faster queues. Leveling dungeons as DPS is pretty much dead and if you find a group its mainly the people who still need to level and do their rouletts.
Rewards could be upped for leveling rouletts as welll to encourage max lvl people to enter it daily.

There are overall many things that can be done to make this happen and I see none of the issues mentioned as particularly unmanagable. I don't know how to balance this stuff or how it would work best, I don't claim to be an expert in this at all. I just know from other MMO's that where already mentioned that it is possible to do it. Even when its not perfect at least the gameplay is fun. And at low level dungeons the balancing being off doesn't matter. The only content imO. they would have to keep a better eye on balancing stuff is old Ultimates. Everything else I don't think would be all to bad.

[Sheriyana]

100% impossible to do yeah, it's not like any other game did it... cough WoW... cough.

People are so used to mediocrity in this game and with this company that they see any kind of improvement and QoL as impossible to do because "muh old engine" "muh old codes", stop finding excuses for SE.

Appreciate your posts! Always calling out bs where you see it! <3 People really need to stop coming up with excuses, this is very much doable, just takes actual effort. Been screaming this for years too, it should be absolutely unacceptable that like 95% of the content in the game forces you to sync down and doesn't allow you to use the abilities you leveled the job for. In a lot of cases even forces you to learn a whole different rotation. This is a massive problem if you do roulettes to any degree! I at least find myself when thinking of what job to go as for any roulette, having to take into account at what level the random duty might be. Some jobs are just miserable at low levels, the rest, even more so. This bs design just alienates people from doing low level content.