Chaotic is midcore, in case you were wondering

[Mawlzy]

Because if the content is capable of a party wipe for a mechanic failure, this playerbase immediately calls it hardcore and savage tier. People in this very thread have said as much. So yes, these complainers do not like content that forces them to not be brainoff gamers. If you find CAR mechanically as savage tier, you really outing yourself for not having much savage experience cause all the damn mechs are in dungeons already and more oftenly appear in EX.

The only thing that separates CAR is the fact that you can't outright bulldoze it with ressing.

And the reason for that lack of experience is the lack of bridging content from normal to higher-level combat.

It's really not helpful for you to repeatedly assert that players less-skilled/experienced than you want braindead content, when they are actively asking for content to help them become more-skilled/experienced.

[Buttobi]

Because people do not want to admit that they are actually unskilled players by shifting the definition on what midcore is. It's a useless word because the content it specifically would apply to the most (EX) is actually too hard for some people, again, who are unskilled.

If you were to put Chaotic on a mechanical level, it actually is on par with an EX, and it's all relatively easy to grasp concepts we've seen in the game over and over, (Stack Spread, In, Out, Look Away etc) but when you add 23 other people vs the usual 7, you have upped the fail points by 3fold at least, which makes it a low savage level.

Even players saying something in this thread like we want "a savage mechanic that can wipe the raid but less of them" is a nebulous ask because thats exactly what chaotic is already but they still complain about it.

If you have a mechanic that can wipe a raid, well amplify that by 23 people and its the exact situation with chaotic. What complainers really want is more braindead content that either can't wipe you outright or that with enough res mages you can brute force it with no issue which is basically a normal alliance raid.

What "complainers" want is more content that falls between normal and ex trial difficulty. If you equate that with braindead content that can not wipe you then you are free to have that opinion. As it stands, the jump of difficulty between the 2 types of content is bigger than any other jump in difficulty in this game. I am not here to argue how the chaotic raid should have been, I just want more stuff to do for people that want to transition into playing a fight of that difficulty.

[Supersnow845]

I don’t even think “transition” or “bridging” is the right word because as it stands EX content IS bridging content. People who say ex is midcore 100% aren’t wrong that you can’t make anything easier than an average EX and still have it somewhat adequately “bridge” or “teach” you how to do high end content. If you want to learn how to do high end content then EX is the right way to learn how to do it

What’s missing is content where you don’t want to be put to sleep by the games lack of difficulty in normal content but you don’t want to be bothered with the strict design that fills high end content. This is where the range of “personal and non hidden semi difficult mechanics that can be saved with rezzing” comes into play. Harder than shiva normal but easier than you average ShB and later extreme

EX fills a niche within midcore but it’s rare to find people who enjoy EX for the sake of it and wouldn’t enjoy something around the same difficulty but less rigid overall

[Havenchild]

What "complainers" want is more content that falls between normal and ex trial difficulty. If you equate that with braindead content that can not wipe you then you are free to have that opinion. As it stands, the jump of difficulty between the 2 types of content is bigger than any other jump in difficulty in this game. I am not here to argue how the chaotic raid should have been, I just want more stuff to do for people that want to transition into playing a fight of that difficulty.

So basically an Alliance raid difficulty as is. Alliance raid is exactly what falls in between a "Normal" and "EX". Yes, its brain-off gaming. Why not call it for what it is?

EX IS the bridge between Normal dungeon and Savage tier, due to the fact that it can wipe you consistently. If you are looking for less difficulty than that, you want Alliance Raid difficulty.

[Buttobi]

So basically an Alliance raid difficulty as is. Alliance raid is exactly what falls in between a "Normal" and "EX". Yes, its brain-off gaming. Why not call it for what it is?

EX IS the bridge between Normal dungeon and Savage tier, due to the fact that it can wipe you consistently. If you are looking for less difficulty than that, you want Alliance Raid difficulty.

Have you not played since Shadowbringers or something? Alliance Raids have not been that way for ages. Even the current one which is supposedly "harder" than the EW ones is barely any different from the 3 raids before it.

[Supersnow845]

The only raid since launch orbornne thay could even maybe try to grab the title “noticeably harder than your average dungeon/normal raid” is tower at paradigms breach and that’s basically exclusively because of red girl

[Kaurhz]

So basically an Alliance raid difficulty as is. Alliance raid is exactly what falls in between a "Normal" and "EX". Yes, its brain-off gaming. Why not call it for what it is?

EX IS the bridge between Normal dungeon and Savage tier, due to the fact that it can wipe you consistently. If you are looking for less difficulty than that, you want Alliance Raid difficulty.

Alliance Raids have not been a difficulty between normal and extreme for a very long time. Even then, arguably there's only been 1-2 exceptions where Alliance Raids have actually been above your normal/story difficulty.

There still absolutely needs to be something between.

[Kohashi]

Like you said, the underlying issue, is the lack of bridge between Extreme and Normal content, it dosn't matter where you draw the line of "midcore" as a term, its just semantics at the end of the day.
But i sincerely believe that a playerbase is not healthy if we draw the line of "midcore" before Extremes.
I am not going into details, but according to lalachievements almost anyone who did Sphene Extreme, also did Arcadion Savage. Which means 2 things, 1 is that the transition between Extreme and Savage is actually pretty seamless, and 2, is that midcore does not exist.
Anyway, like i said, semantics.

Perhaps and it's the same thing I felt when I transitioned but looking back now, I think it is good and a lot more beneficial to have a distinct and clear line drawn between easy content and somewhat difficult.

Do you really, really, need the game to really, hold your hand at every step of the way taking all agency away from you? Should there be no effort for you involved and everything should be a smooth seamless transition in between? Where is the struggle, the effort, and the accomplishment for actually "conquering" such feats if everything is nothing but sunshine and rainbows?

As for " the game tries to wipe groups for individual mistakes" I think it's very fair because it greatly discourages carrying an individual who does not deserve the achievement/clear of the fight. Why exactly should the game allow you to carry dead weights?

[jonimated]

So basically an Alliance raid difficulty as is. Alliance raid is exactly what falls in between a "Normal" and "EX". Yes, its brain-off gaming. Why not call it for what it is?

EX IS the bridge between Normal dungeon and Savage tier, due to the fact that it can wipe you consistently. If you are looking for less difficulty than that, you want Alliance Raid difficulty.

But that's not true though, is it. Alliance raids are on the same level as normal trails. Which tbh are nearly on par with expert roulette in terms of encounter difficulty. Really the only difference being party size and actual fight length.

An Alliance Raid and Normal Trial can be cleared by a party of semi-competent people, even throwing in a few grey parsers in there for good measure, with relative ease. It also doesn't require manually putting together a party of people and trying to ensure they are all on the same phase of the fight (for all the good that does). Someone earlier in the thread put it well when they said that the type of content missing in FFXIV is encounters which can be explained in a few minutes by a party leader with experience, and can be cleared in about an hour with clear signs of progress after each wipe.

FFXIV doesn't have a dungeon or raid system with several variable difficulties. Sure we have normal trials and raids, and their EX/Savage versions, but those aren't really the same thing. They don't just increase health and damage, and add one or two mechanics. In many cases the EX/Savage versions of the fights are nearly unrecognizable from their normal counterparts. It's not the same as having content with a difficulty ramp.

The difficulty spike between normal an EX is massive, even statistically so. How long does it take a random roulette group to clear a brand new normal trial? Most can do it in a single go completely blind, some maybe a wipe or two. How long would it take that same group of players to complete an EX trail under the same circumstances. Hours, days, weeks, if they are even successful at all?

FFXIV has always had an issue serving this middle ground of content, an issue (like many others the game has) that other MMOs have solved ages ago. There are many proven ways to provide this kind of content and SE is doing none of it. Semi-difficult content with a low barrier to entry doesn't exist in FFXIV. Some of that does have to do with the rigidity of the game's combat system fundamentally, but that's a completely different can or worms I don't want to open. The point is the game has a content gap that has never been filled, even while other MMOs do it successfully.

[Lilapop]

Because if the content is capable of a party wipe for a mechanic failure, this playerbase immediately calls it hardcore and savage tier. People in this very thread have said as much. So yes, these complainers do not like content that forces them to not be brainoff gamers. If you find CAR mechanically as savage tier, you really outing yourself for not having much savage experience cause all the damn mechs are in dungeons already and more oftenly appear in EX.

The only thing that separates CAR is the fact that you can't outright bulldoze it with ressing.

Weren't you one of the people arguing in previous threads that the Chaotic is Savage tier? Now you're saying EX? No, nobody in this thread has asked for more "brainoff" content. I feel like the sentiment is, nobody except Havenchild enjoys a 24 person body check.