Chaotic is midcore, in case you were wondering

[BigCheez]

The problem seems to be when you ask for casual content in this game you get content that a lobotomised 2 year old could clear and when you ask for midcore content you get low end of savage

Like they seem to be completely blind to the BA, launch orbornne range of content

I agree and think this is the kind of feedback that people should be giving instead of asking for "midcore content" and acting surprised when they get more extreme/savage difficulty content.

Casual content in XIV is largely too easy and doesn't have enough rewards associated with it or replay value. There needs to be more content around alliance raid difficulty and a reason to play it. Bonus points if it has some kind of variance and isn't just the same thing over and over again.

[OlafQuintessa]

Everything up to and including savage is midcore content. If you want no prep, no requirement, low time investment content, stop asking for midcore content. It's casual content with replay value that the game is lacking at the minute.

I think a lot of people are misusing the word "midcore" because they don't want to imply that they're only "casual" players by asking for casual content. But midcore is between casual and hardcore. Hardcore content requires a lot of preparation, organisation, coordination and time investment. Midcore content requires a moderate amount of these things. If it doesn't require these things, it's casual content.

Ask for what you actually want instead of asking for something else and being surprised when your needs aren't met.

I'm sorry but there is nothing between casual and hardcore and it very rarely makes an appearance (like ultima unreal). If you want specifics I know exactly what I want - savage with half the mechanics. Criterion with half the mechanics. Extreme with 2/3 of the mechanics. Midcore could easily require some prep and discussion, I don't think that's the issue. It's the amount of prog time to learn it - at least from my experience. If you can get a group of non-raiders together and clear in 1-2 evenings then it's midcore.

[MoofiaBossVal]

12 people having to all execute their mechanic and any single one of them failing resulting in a wipe, over and over again for 60+ attempts, is not midcore.

[BigCheez]

I'm sorry but there is nothing between casual and hardcore and it very rarely makes an appearance (like ultima unreal). If you want specifics I know exactly what I want - savage with half the mechanics. Criterion with half the mechanics. Extreme with 2/3 of the mechanics. Midcore could easily require some prep and discussion, I don't think that's the issue. It's the amount of prog time to learn it - at least from my experience. If you can get a group of non-raiders together and clear in 1-2 evenings then it's midcore.

What does "with half the mechanics" mean? Longer between mechanics? Shorter fights? If you're asking for less overlapping mechanics, that's just normal mode content. What you're describing is casual content.

[OlafQuintessa]

With what I'm imagining you get savage mechanics that if you screw up you probably wipe, but only half as many as a full savage fight. And perhaps less overlapping mechs but still some. And maybe longer between mechanics too. Do you remember Ultima Unreal? Something like that would be a good place to start. Normal mode content like alli raids, dungeons, trials and so on - you are guaranteed to clear with maybe a few wipes and it doesn't require prog as such. Maybe you find it hard to imagine that anyone would find half-savage hard, but it would be enough for me. A fight that was just learning Fundamental Synergy from O12S would almost be enough!

[BigCheez]

With what I'm imagining you get savage mechanics that if you screw up you probably wipe, but only half as many as a full savage fight. And perhaps less overlapping mechs but still some. And maybe longer between mechanics too. Do you remember Ultima Unreal? Something like that would be a good place to start. Normal mode content like alli raids, dungeons, trials and so on - you are guaranteed to clear with maybe a few wipes and it doesn't require prog as such. Maybe you find it hard to imagine that anyone would find half-savage hard, but it would be enough for me. A fight that was just learning Fundamental Synergy from O12S would almost be enough!

Ultima unreal was pretty much normal mode difficulty. The only mechanic that can wipe the raid is the orbs. That's casual content. You can go in with no prep and clear in a few pulls.

I agree. More stuff like this would be good. But people need to stop asking for midcore content if they don't want midcore content.

[Mawlzy]

Ultima unreal was pretty much normal mode difficulty. The only mechanic that can wipe the raid is the orbs. That's casual content. You can go in with no prep and clear in a few pulls.

I agree. More stuff like this would be good. But people need to stop asking for midcore content if they don't want midcore content.

If it creates a semantic confusion, I guess I agree with this, but in practice isn't it fairly clear what people are asking for? Content that is more difficult than current casual that does not require PF or a static.

I realize that immediately produces a dichotomy between NA/EU and JP, but since these are not the JP boards that confusion evaporates.

[Supersnow845]

Yeah it’s fair to say “don’t ask for midcore because what you are asking for isn’t midcore in the eyes of JP developers” but it’s also not terrible confusing for people on the English forums

[Jeeqbit]

midcore is not halfway between extreme and savage.

Realistically, extreme is often midcore. The difficulty of it can vary a bit but take Byakko Extreme (which is the current unreal trial). You can literally take in 8 sprouts and clear that within the timer... if not 1 pull. Same even with Valigarmanda probably.

The problem is purely that western regions use PF instead of direct queues so it feels really convoluted and complicated for many players when, if they were able to just queue and do some pulls they would probably clear it.

Part of what made Eureka and Bozja NMs/CEs midcore was that people could not actually make PFs for it within the duty. They just had to jump in, and either beat it or wipe to it.

for 4-8 people

24-48 people is absolutely fine. Eureka and Bozja proved this. Take Castrum Lacus Litore, where you had the majority of players fighting a boss they could wipe to endlessly, but 8 players had to be really good and be confident of not wiping while taking down a different boss.

That was a really good way to do it. The majority of the 24 people can be casuals that have no idea what they are doing, wiping repeatedly, but 8 of them need to be good players. Over time, some of those less-good players will need to help out if there's only 7 good players. And in doing so, may become better and more confident fighting a boss with stakes - where the entire raid is counting on them.

Find some willing casuals.

They usually get their PR and marketing teams and office workers to try it (people who have never played the game before) to represent "casuals" when testing.

The result of that is all the normal mode content and alliance raids. Is that what you want? Because you've already got it.

[Voryn]

The biggest problem with this whole discussion/argument is that people are coming from different contexts and then are communicating with each other in a way that doesn’t work. “Casual,” “Midcore,” and “Hardcore” are meaningless. People begging for “Midcore” content have ended up getting what Japan calls “Midcore.”

And now you might have the privilege of spending ten pages here arguing with experienced raiders about what is and isn’t “Midcore, unless you focus more on what exactly the content should be like rather than what label you put on it.

My first clear of Dawntrail’s second Extreme was when our best available gear was around ilvl 710, and we had thirteen deaths in it (me being one of them lol) so to me it definitely doesn’t have a hardcore dps requirement and is not super strict about mechanics either. But that’s still not what you’re looking for, and it doesn’t help so far when anyone says “but it’s not that hard???? You don’t need to be crazy good to beat it????”

How would your hypothetical “midcore” content test you in a way that’s higher than Normal raids but not as much as Extreme? Mechanics need to require you to them, otherwise they may as well not exist. Dps checks might need to exist, so people press their buttons and also aren’t dying a crazy amount. What would the content need to be like so that there’s more of a challenge than normal mode but people aren’t getting carried?

On the other hand I do end up on the viewpoint of “just do Extreme but take your time with it.”