Chaotic is midcore, in case you were wondering

[BigCheez]

I know "midcore" is a somewhat nebulous term, but I think we all agree that challenging content for casuals to try that isn't extreme or savage is what the game really needs. So, how does the lead designer interpret this desire? More extreme/savage content, that you need to get 24 people together for so it's really hard to learn. I think we can give up on anything midcore in ffxiv to be honest.

Content for casual players? You mean... Casual content?

Everything up to and including savage is midcore content. If you want no prep, no requirement, low time investment content, stop asking for midcore content. It's casual content with replay value that the game is lacking at the minute.

I think a lot of people are misusing the word "midcore" because they don't want to imply that they're only "casual" players by asking for casual content. But midcore is between casual and hardcore. Hardcore content requires a lot of preparation, organisation, coordination and time investment. Midcore content requires a moderate amount of these things. If it doesn't require these things, it's casual content.

Ask for what you actually want instead of asking for something else and being surprised when your needs aren't met.

[Supersnow845]

Content for casual players? You mean... Casual content?

Everything up to and including savage is midcore content. If you want no prep, no requirement, low time investment content, stop asking for midcore content. It's casual content with replay value that the game is lacking at the minute.

The problem seems to be when you ask for casual content in this game you get content that a lobotomised 2 year old could clear and when you ask for midcore content you get low end of savage

Like they seem to be completely blind to the BA, launch orbornne range of content

[BigCheez]

The problem seems to be when you ask for casual content in this game you get content that a lobotomised 2 year old could clear and when you ask for midcore content you get low end of savage

Like they seem to be completely blind to the BA, launch orbornne range of content

I agree and think this is the kind of feedback that people should be giving instead of asking for "midcore content" and acting surprised when they get more extreme/savage difficulty content.

Casual content in XIV is largely too easy and doesn't have enough rewards associated with it or replay value. There needs to be more content around alliance raid difficulty and a reason to play it. Bonus points if it has some kind of variance and isn't just the same thing over and over again.

[Shougun]

The problem seems to be when you ask for casual content in this game you get content that a lobotomised 2 year old could clear and when you ask for midcore content you get low end of savage

Like they seem to be completely blind to the BA, launch orbornne range of content

I agree and think this is the kind of feedback that people should be giving instead of asking for "midcore content" and acting surprised when they get more extreme/savage difficulty content.

Casual content in XIV is largely too easy and doesn't have enough rewards associated with it or replay value. There needs to be more content around alliance raid difficulty and a reason to play it. Bonus points if it has some kind of variance and isn't just the same thing over and over again.

I can vibe with this chain. I do think I have seen a number of 'midcore' requests throughout the years that really boiled down to 'end game casual content' with the subtext of 'that isn't brain dead like a beast tribe quest'. If you're a casual it can sometimes feel like you can either choose no brain content or no content.


Honestly to me I just see 'mid core' content as it is being discussed here as training wheels content for hardcore lol. I suppose midcore solo stuff is interesting, but I'm not interested in any content that requires me to rely on others ability to study, anything, ever again. Like confidently, ever. Too much wasting time in FFXI / WoW for stuff I found in the end didn't offset the stress / annoyance, just need to delevel a few times in vanilla FFXI cause someone can't follow instructions to be like "nah, I'm good man- this is just not fun" lol (recommend statics for people who are able to meet that though). If I want hard content I want it to be solo (although for the purposes of an MMO I recommend party # scaling content that does this as much as possible, like WoW has with some of its stuff).

[Amarande]

The reason extremes don’t fall into this despite not being mechanically much harder is for NA/EU they require time investment for strat arrangement and organisation within PF

I feel like the obnoxiously low mount drop rates are a big problem as well. You have to run them so many times (I expect that when they moved to totems they also implied that the delayed totem pity would now be the expected way to get an EX mount and if you get if off the drop it is just a nice bonus) that most people by the time they've got theirs are far too burnt out on the instance to continue to help others until xpacs later when it's an easy unsync, even if they went in starry eyed "I'll get mine and then help others!"

On reflection this alone easily explains most of the problems seen with EX PF culture

Hard body checks that makes prog multiple days or even months exist only in some savage floors and ultimates. Which we are already agree we consider those hardcores.

We have this in CAR and I'm already fearing that the 24 player body check more or less is going to be the nail in the coffin for CAR making it more of a ghost town than Diadem emergency mission was before long. When you need that many and it's on SE's favorite "one player spoils it all!" design, yikes.

The game has 0 friction during it's mainstream content making people considering wiping a raid is a too hardcore is seriously funny. Maybe we should consider that after playing FIVE expansion of 10 YEARS content, having Square baby the players this much is not a good direction.

I would agree more IF the game didn't so heavily encourage people (especially non hardcore players) to take long breaks, and IF the game actually had a smooth consistent improvement curve.

But it does encourage breaks by design, heavily. And it does not have a smooth improvement curve, because they do things like totally change up how tells work after tens of levels of getting accustomed to the ground markers system, and roulettes skew low so even many active players are not even seeing high level casual content all that often ..

[Kuroka]

We have this in CAR and I'm already fearing that the 24 player body check more or less is going to be the nail in the coffin for CAR making it more of a ghost town than Diadem emergency mission was before long. When you need that many and it's on SE's favorite "one player spoils it all!" design, yikes.

This so much yeah... like either make it smaller with 4 ppl and make everyone count or do it with 24 and leave us more room...

[OlafQuintessa]

Everything up to and including savage is midcore content. If you want no prep, no requirement, low time investment content, stop asking for midcore content. It's casual content with replay value that the game is lacking at the minute.

I think a lot of people are misusing the word "midcore" because they don't want to imply that they're only "casual" players by asking for casual content. But midcore is between casual and hardcore. Hardcore content requires a lot of preparation, organisation, coordination and time investment. Midcore content requires a moderate amount of these things. If it doesn't require these things, it's casual content.

Ask for what you actually want instead of asking for something else and being surprised when your needs aren't met.

I'm sorry but there is nothing between casual and hardcore and it very rarely makes an appearance (like ultima unreal). If you want specifics I know exactly what I want - savage with half the mechanics. Criterion with half the mechanics. Extreme with 2/3 of the mechanics. Midcore could easily require some prep and discussion, I don't think that's the issue. It's the amount of prog time to learn it - at least from my experience. If you can get a group of non-raiders together and clear in 1-2 evenings then it's midcore.

[BigCheez]

I'm sorry but there is nothing between casual and hardcore and it very rarely makes an appearance (like ultima unreal). If you want specifics I know exactly what I want - savage with half the mechanics. Criterion with half the mechanics. Extreme with 2/3 of the mechanics. Midcore could easily require some prep and discussion, I don't think that's the issue. It's the amount of prog time to learn it - at least from my experience. If you can get a group of non-raiders together and clear in 1-2 evenings then it's midcore.

What does "with half the mechanics" mean? Longer between mechanics? Shorter fights? If you're asking for less overlapping mechanics, that's just normal mode content. What you're describing is casual content.

[OlafQuintessa]

With what I'm imagining you get savage mechanics that if you screw up you probably wipe, but only half as many as a full savage fight. And perhaps less overlapping mechs but still some. And maybe longer between mechanics too. Do you remember Ultima Unreal? Something like that would be a good place to start. Normal mode content like alli raids, dungeons, trials and so on - you are guaranteed to clear with maybe a few wipes and it doesn't require prog as such. Maybe you find it hard to imagine that anyone would find half-savage hard, but it would be enough for me. A fight that was just learning Fundamental Synergy from O12S would almost be enough!

[BigCheez]

With what I'm imagining you get savage mechanics that if you screw up you probably wipe, but only half as many as a full savage fight. And perhaps less overlapping mechs but still some. And maybe longer between mechanics too. Do you remember Ultima Unreal? Something like that would be a good place to start. Normal mode content like alli raids, dungeons, trials and so on - you are guaranteed to clear with maybe a few wipes and it doesn't require prog as such. Maybe you find it hard to imagine that anyone would find half-savage hard, but it would be enough for me. A fight that was just learning Fundamental Synergy from O12S would almost be enough!

Ultima unreal was pretty much normal mode difficulty. The only mechanic that can wipe the raid is the orbs. That's casual content. You can go in with no prep and clear in a few pulls.

I agree. More stuff like this would be good. But people need to stop asking for midcore content if they don't want midcore content.