Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

[Kaurhz]

Final Fantasy XIV for the Casuals for the last 11 Years:
- MSQ and the related Content have been fine tuned and sterilized with Casual players in mind to make the base game and gameplay loop as accessible as possible
- Mechanics up until DT ranged from "Dodge AoE" to "Dodge AoE from Background" with massive 20 seconds of just boss auto attacks to make story bosses as clearable as possible
- 8 Man Raids have gotten split between story and savage variants, and become just another trial series, starting with Omega just removing all semblance of actual maps. Waiting 8 months and now 10 months with the extra dev time for a four round boss rush """"Raid""""
- Glamour "Endgame" has been supported on a patch by patch basis with a constant revolving door of new glamour gear given out freely or for minimal effort
- Roulettes and the base gameplay loop makes you put in a minimum of 4 to 5 hours a week depending on role to get your weekly stuff done
- Gold Saucer and it's mini games
- Island Sanctuary for 2 entire years
- Hildibrand Questline that should've ended years ago
- Relics have been streamlined to the point it was just a free weapon upgrade by Endwalker
- Zone Restorations have been moved from a patch to patch map update to dedicated crafting and gathering zones
- Any and all non blue-side quests are done with casual players in mind
- Custom Deliveries
- PVP and a Season Pass
- People don't like Eureka so they streamlined it for Save the Queen, to make it more accessible
Final Fantasy XIV for the "Hardcore players" for the last 11 Years:
- Gotten a dedicated Savage mode after Coils was made for higher end players in mind starting with Alexander in 2015, with a massive learning curve for the devs on the right difficulty.
- The specific subsection of players that wanted harder content 2 years later got "Ultimate Raids" which only release 2 times per Expansion
- After years of asking for harder 4 man content, finally got Criterion and Criterion Savage 4 years after the first Ultimates came out.
- After getting a first taste of real "savage" raids in Stormblood and Shadowbringers with Baldesion's Arsenal and DRS Just got a 24 man "Savage Raid" 3 years after Shadowbringers, that is once again just a boss and for that matter one that has already been fought twice before, three times if you count E9S as separate from E9.

Final Fantasy XIV has always catered to casuals, it's entire base gameplay loop and being caters to casuals. And that's A-Okay, casuals are the constantly flowing life blood of this game. But let's not act like the devs don't care about casuals, they care more about us then we really deserve.

Whilst I don't entirely disagree - I do think some of it is disingenuous. With the exception of large-scale exploratory content, none of that 'content' really has any substance. Island Sanctuary ended up coming about as substantive as logging in and doing your weekly Custom Delivery or Beast Tribe quest. You logged in, got your populated Excel spreadsheet, populated your workshop and then ignored it for 1-2 weeks. What am I going to do after spending 20 minutes doing 2 Hildibrand quests every 5 months. Roulettes are a core gameplay loop for both casuals and hardcore players. It isn't like they put that there for casual players LOL. Players engaging with the harder content actually have more of a reason to in there just because of the gear requirement of the content they do. PvP isn't really catered to either hardcore or casual players specifically. It's an entirely different niche of the game for people with their own interests regardless of whether they might be casual or hardcore.

What I will say is, I don't think SE favors one of the other. I think they frontload 'hardcore' content, and then backload 'casual' content. So they care about both equally in the long term. I disagree as to say they care a lot more about us than we deserve. They care far too little for what people put into this game, for both 'casual' and 'hardcore' players. XIV is the equivalent of going to your local McDonalds restaurant.

That being said, irrespective of the fact, both hardcore and casual players benefit from having something substantive like zone explorations. Nobody wants to come in for their weekly cookie cutter content.

[AllenThyl]

a) This service is a product, and a non-essential at that. Everyone here is just a customer, and every customer should always make an informed decision of where and how to spend their limited time and money. This isn't the flex you think it is. Customer protection is important, and the world certainly needs more of it at every turn, especially with how predatory the gaming industry has become the past decade. But at a certain point, the customer has to take some personal responsibility for their own life.

b) Not withstanding the whole general debate, the OP in question has admitted in this forum to throwing at least one Frontline game because the other team "had a premade and there was nothing we could do". So in OP's case, yes, it quite frankly would actually be good if they could leave this game, because Frontline is such a painful experience with the amount of people who don't even have the will to even try.

[Damnhedge]

Whilst I don't entirely disagree - I do think some of it is disingenuous. With the exception of large-scale exploratory content, none of that 'content' really has any substance. Island Sanctuary ended up coming about as substantive as logging in and doing your weekly Custom Delivery or Beast Tribe quest. You logged in, got your populated Excel spreadsheet, populated your workshop and then ignored it for 1-2 weeks. What am I going to do after spending 20 minutes doing 2 Hildibrand quests every 5 months. Roulettes are a core gameplay loop for both casuals and hardcore players. It isn't like they put that there for casual players LOL. Players engaging with the harder content actually have more of a reason to in there just because of the gear requirement of the content they do. PvP isn't really catered to either hardcore or casual players specifically. It's an entirely different niche of the game for people with their own interests regardless of whether they might be casual or hardcore.

What I will say is, I don't think SE favors one of the other. I think they frontload 'hardcore' content, and then backload 'casual' content. So they care about both equally in the long term. I disagree as to say they care a lot more about us than we deserve. They care far too little for what people put into this game, for both 'casual' and 'hardcore' players. XIV is the equivalent of going to your local McDonalds restaurant.

That being said, irrespective of the fact, both hardcore and casual players benefit from having something substantive like zone explorations. Nobody wants to come in for their weekly cookie cutter content.

I don't disagree with you in the slightest, and I'll always be one of the first to defend ARR Relics pre-nerf and EZs for content that is substantial.

[Gurgeh]

a) This service is a product, and a non-essential at that. Everyone here is just a customer, and every customer should always make an informed decision of where and how to spend their limited time and money. This isn't the flex you think it is. Customer protection is important, and the world certainly needs more of it at every turn, especially with how predatory the gaming industry has become the past decade. But at a certain point, the customer has to take some personal responsibility for their own life.

b) Not withstanding the whole general debate, the OP in question has admitted in this forum to throwing at least one Frontline game because the other team "had a premade and there was nothing we could do". So in OP's case, yes, it quite frankly would actually be good if they could leave this game, because Frontline is such a painful experience with the amount of people who don't even have the will to even try.

I can't comment on the OP. But I'm getting the same from you. I just think you don't get how different people are??!! You have 'no way' of knowing if they are not making the effort vs just being completely overwhelmed. I had to play loads, before I was good enough to feel like I had anything to contribe to PvP. You might not be one Allen, but I have met people who just walk into stuff, and they are 'good' from the outset. They make in just an afternoons attempt, the same progress other people spend months accumulating, and for them thats just the start. The "Arthars" of this world do exist, even if they got their skills first in other games or whatever. People who pickup XIV, skip and boost their way to end game, and jump stright into savage and then onto ultimate. So many times, you are just 'assuming' that people want to be as bad as they are and don't even 'want' to be better.

[AllenThyl]

I can't comment on the OP. But I'm getting the same from you. I just think you don't get how different people are??!!

That's the issue right there. You don't know. We already had that with your inability to level your crafters/gatherers since DT launch, despite admitting to playing several hours each day. And when people gave you dozens of solutions with which you could fix your problem, you still spend a ridiculous amount of posts to swat every suggestion down. Your ignorance is just that, your ignorance.

You have 'no way' of knowing if they are not making the effort vs just being completely overwhelmed. I had to play loads, before I was good enough to feel like I had anything to contribe to PvP. You might not be one Allen, but I have met people who just walk into stuff, and they are 'good' from the outset. They make in just an afternoons attempt, the same progress other people spend months accumulating, and for them thats just the start. The "Arthars" of this world do exist, even if they got their skills first in other games or whatever. People who pickup XIV, skip and boost their way to end game, and jump stright into savage and then onto ultimate. So many times, you are just 'assuming' that people want to be as bad as they are and don't even 'want' to be better.

Again, your absolute ignorance is staggering, just staggering. There is a difference between "not knowing", and "deliberately throwing and then going on the forum to admit it, even showing a screenshot that proves how they basically afked which is behavior that violates the ToS".

My man, I already wished you all the best on your journey through life. And with every post you make, you prove in just how dire a need you are for every scrap of good will you can get.

[DynnDiablos]

There is a clear divide between the casual playerbase and the hardcore base, and it's growing exponentially as time goes on. Sticking to an outdated, archaic patch schedule does not help things, nor does the feast or famine approach with how they deliver casual/exploratory content vs. the harder raids.

There is definitely a mentality from the hardcore players that the casual players are ruining their gaming experience, and in some ways that may be true, but what the hardcore need to understand is they are the minority. They love to think they are the majority, but they are the minority.

At the end of the day, this is a game. Folks who want to treat it as a professional job, that's on them, but most don't. FFXIV is also what I like to call an MMO-lite. This is basically a single player RPG with an MMO wrapping.

Another thing to consider is the dev team are perpetuating a further divide between players with making the game soloable. Soon, all dungeons and even trials can be done with duty support. This leaves raids and harder content as the only content you're forced to actually interact with other players.

Anyone who is simply playing and learning mechanics via duty support, is going to be in for a rude awakening moving into raids. So, yes, this will upset players who are more experienced and have chosen to do all content with live/real people. Again, I feel much of the divide and anger between groups isn't helped with how the game's design is moving toward solo with MMO options. And again, I love having this options, but isn't going to help things.

[Gurgeh]

That's the issue right there. You don't know. We already had that with your inability to level your crafters/gatherers since DT launch, despite admitting to playing several hours each day. And when people gave you dozens of solutions with which you could fix your problem, you still spend a ridiculous amount of posts to swat every suggestion down. Your ignorance is just that, your ignorance.



Again, your absolute ignorance is staggering, just staggering. There is a difference between "not knowing", and "deliberately throwing and then going on the forum to admit it, even showing a screenshot that proves how they basically afked which is behavior that violates the ToS".

My man, I already wished you all the best on your journey through life. And with every post you make, you prove in just how dire a need you are for every scrap of good will you can get.

No, your comments weren't only at the OP you were blanket generalising. And I've seen you in other posts imply that you think you are able to tell just from people's performance, the effort they are making. So I accuse you on that form of doing it again here. You constantly make assumptions about people, for factors that are variable, and you really sound confident. (Dont stop it's just a forum and sometimes your just trying to be bombastic and it is entertaining) There may be another conclusion, but the only one I can come up with you assume other people are the same as you with respect to x and, y, but for some reason when it comes to Z their 'will' they are 'willfully' choosing not to play the game the way you choose to, but you ignore x and y.

(The gill thing is getting boring but I will keep saying, I only want to do battle content. I dint want to mb trade beyond selling my inventory for space, or one artificial one hit hunts for Gil. Because truth is I dint really want to do savage in just forced to because Extreme farming is unpleasant, and casual is so unengaging to repeat. I want to enjoy crafting that means a bit here and a bit there when I want to craft, not when I dint because I'm forced to level make gear. Don't change the game if it's just me but you've got all this savage content, and people not playing it. For me it was because I was too late for every opportunity to be introduced and do it all socially. savage gear shouldn't have anything to do with crafting unless they can control prices. Hell I haven't checked but I'll bet you can resell other crafters gear as long as you don't use it? so I'll bet a lot of it is just scalper inflation. (If that's even possible they hould plug that gap. Certain items one should only be able to sell once)

[DynnDiablos]

No, your comments weren't only at the OP you were blanket generalising. And I've seen you in other posts imply that you think you are able to tell just from people's performance, the effort they are making. So I accuse you on that form of doing it again here. You constantly make assumptions about people, for factors that are variable, and you really sound confident. (Dont stop it's just a forum and sometimes your just trying to be bombastic and it is entertaining) There may be another conclusion, but the only one I can come up with you assume other people are the same as you with respect to x and, y, but for some reason when it comes to Z their 'will' they are 'willfully' choosing not to play the game the way you choose to, but you ignore x and y.

(The gill thing is getting boring but I will keep saying, I only want to do battle content. I dint want to mb trade beyond selling my inventory for space, or one artificial one hit hunts for Gil. Because truth is I dint really want to do savage in just forced to because Extreme farming is unpleasant, and casual is so unengaging to repeat. I want to enjoy crafting that means a bit here and a bit there when I want to craft, not when I dint because I'm forced to level make gear. Don't change the game if it's just me but you've got all this savage content, and people not playing it. For me it was because I was too late for every opportunity to be introduced and do it all socially. savage gear shouldn't have anything to do with crafting unless they can control prices. Hell I haven't checked but I'll bet you can resell other crafters gear as long as you don't use it? so I'll bet a lot of it is just scalper inflation. (If that's even possible they hould plug that gap. Certain items one should only be able to sell once)

AllenThyl is one of those people who loves to hear himself talk. I've never witnessed someone so full of themselves on this forum. Looks down on everyone constantly, thinks he can diagnose players constantly, and really believes they are god's gift to the FFXIV playerbase in skill.

[Lilapop]

You're making a lot of generalisations about what "the playerbase" thinks but the playerbase is not a monolith. In any social game you're going to get people frustrated. I mean I got kicked from an Extreme group recently because "somebody" kept changing the markers and the dope who was running the group decided to kick everyone they didn't know personally, some people are just idiots. On the other side there are tonnes of players who do want to help people who struggle with content but you have to make the effort to go out and find them. Just because some people are arseholes doesn't negate the nice people who play the game. You're taking all of your worst experiences in the game and extrapolating from that that everybody feels that way but it's just not true. Haven't you had positive experiences too?

It seems like you have doubts about playing the game and you're projecting them on to others. If you don't like the combat, don't like the social aspect, then what is it about this game that attracts you? Because these are not part of the casual/hardcore discussion, these are all essential elements of the game design for all players.

It is regularly said about the FF14 community (the thing you call a monolith) that it's a helpful and friendly community. Aidorouge is saying their experience isn't like that. Where's the generalization?

[Collin_Sky]

With the exception of large-scale exploratory content, none of that 'content' really has any substance.

Honestly, what do you expect? We are in a thread where the OP is complaining of MSQ duties being too hard. It is impossible to create something of "substance" for people like this. It is impossible to create long term content with the casual in mind that isn't just a pure grind or heavily time gated.
Even if things like Hilidibrand were longer, it's still got an incredibly finite shelf life where once you've done it, that's it, nothing else to do.

You have to understand that casual content is not long term content because there is no barrier to entry or barrier to success, it's going to be finished quickly by the vast majority.