Chaotic Alliance Raid is a fun fight, but awful content

[TemporalFruitsAndVeggies]

The content types here should ideally feed into each other, e.g., ideally a casual player should be able to finish the story and then be adequately prepared to step into extreme content, for example, without needing to adjust to pacing, or for example learn their class. Now we can say ideally at level 100 people should be able to do this fundamentally, but the game doesn't actually encourage the latter, and in the case of the former where they have pacing it often times comes without consequence, to where you can ignore it all and be OK in casual content. At the very least people should be aware that a struggle has happened as opposed to being able to shrug it off and not think about it again. There's nothing in that experience that leads your typical player to finish the duty and then do even rudimentary reflection, which is where the improvement comes in.

You've actually inadvertently helped my argument (I think) by hopping immediately to instanced boss fights, while forgetting (like most players do) that FFXIV has an enormous game world that sits functionally empty the vast majority of the time. In Guild Wars 2, I can go run around the world, smack mobs, and do random dynamic events. This is the purest form of baseline content in GW2: accessible 24/7, can be done solo, provides a constant trickle of useful rewards. Many people, myself included, also find it fun, which is why it's hard to go anywhere in the game's giant world where you won't find at least one other person aimlessly wandering around, as well. People do it simply because they want to.

You CAN do this in FFXIV, but I think we can all agree that it is objectively neither fun nor rewarding, or else people would do it, but they don't. Sure, people grind FATEs, the design of which has not evolved in a full decade, for the sole purpose of being done with grinding FATEs. No one ever returns to FATEs after the fact because they've thought, "I just really wanna do a few FATEs right now, because they're fun."

And I think this is the core issue with the game: the end-goal of all content types, before players have even set foot in them, is to be "done" with them. "One more expert roulette until I'm capped on tomestones, then I'm done for the week." "Two more EX3 clears for totems, then I'm done for all the alts I care about." "Three more M4S clears, then I have enough books to be done." "Four more FATEs, then I never have to come to Heritage Found again." "Two more weeks of prog, then I'm done with this Ultimate." The view of almost everything is that it is a chore that needs completed.

Where is that underlying, always available, who-cares-how-easy-or-hard-it-is, do-it-just-because-it's-fun content? Some people may get that from PvP, and some people may get that from Eureka/Bozja (although the goal there is still to "be done"), but I think that's the case for a minority of players, and the majority just...doesn't have that.

[Kaurhz]

You've actually inadvertently helped my argument (I think) by hopping immediately to instanced boss fights, while forgetting (like most players do) that FFXIV has an enormous game world that sits functionally empty the vast majority of the time. In Guild Wars 2, I can go run around the world, smack mobs, and do random dynamic events. This is the purest form of baseline content in GW2: accessible 24/7, can be done solo, provides a constant trickle of useful rewards. Many people, myself included, also find it fun, which is why it's hard to go anywhere in the game's giant world where you won't find at least one other person aimlessly wandering around, as well. People do it simply because they want to.

You CAN do this in FFXIV, but I think we can all agree that it is objectively neither fun nor rewarding, or else people would do it, but they don't. Sure, people grind FATEs, the design of which has not evolved in a full decade, for the sole purpose of being done with grinding FATEs. No one ever returns to FATEs after the fact because they've thought, "I just really wanna do a few FATEs right now, because they're fun."

And I think this is the core issue with the game: the end-goal of all content types, before players have even set foot in them, is to be "done" with them. "One more expert roulette until I'm capped on tomestones, then I'm done for the week." "Two more EX3 clears for totems, then I'm done for all the alts I care about." "Three more M4S clears, then I have enough books to be done." "Four more FATEs, then I never have to come to Heritage Found again." "Two more weeks of prog, then I'm done with this Ultimate." The view of almost everything is that it is a chore that needs completed.

Where is that underlying, always available, who-cares-how-easy-or-hard-it-is, do-it-just-because-it's-fun content? Some people may get that from PvP, and some people may get that from Eureka/Bozja (although the goal there is still to "be done"), but I think that's the case for a minority of players, and the majority just...doesn't have that.

I mean I wasn't disagreeing with it by any stretch of the imagination (Sorry if I gave the impression I did?), just that one of the issues you've pointed out is partially resolved by lack of certain content, or lack of certain substance in it. I know as much as anyone that raiding isn't for everyone seeing as I stopped enjoying it around the time it became noticeable with my visual impairment. My main point was just part of the 'fun' issue is not down to 1 single thing, and lack of preparedness via Normal/Story content is just as big of an issue as just pure enjoyment of content. Like, I know plenty of people that would want to step into raiding or higher end for example but won't because they feel like nothing has prepared them to do so. It's been a common point of issue in my circle recently where.. I've had people that loved everything up to Endwalker (They were relatively newer), but hated this expansion, and a large factor of that was because they were doing a fully fledged expansion on-content, which they weren't prepared for and unironically knocked their enjoyment significantly. Wasn't until they got more confident and practiced that they actually started to enjoy it more. For some people -- A lot in fact I would say, confidence and preparedness, both their own and based on community perception play a gigantic factor in whether they enjoy it or not (Now whether that's healthy or not is a different argument), or whether they would even try it for that matter.

Honestly though as for your last point, fun for fun sake is a very difficult thing to achieve, as it ultimately diminishes with experience. Like, for me crafting was always that outlet since ARR, loved it just because.. But eventually as I got more experienced with it, and as I began to understand it, it became less and less about enjoyment for enjoyment sake, and more setting myself goals... How many statics can I craft for on day 1? How much Gil can I make on day 1? Can I push the first piece out on the market on my server? - Novelty is a very powerful tool, and novelty diminishes with time and experience, which is the biggest factor.

Honestly, FFXIV content lifecycle in many instances is far far too short and insular to facilitate the idea of 'do-it-just-because-it's-fun' content, everything is just far, far too short, and unfortunately everything in the game is designed to support this.

I have done far too much reading and typing for today so all of that might not flow well...?