Chaotic Alliance Raid is a fun fight, but awful content

[AmiableApkallu]

All the discussion around this fight both here and on reddit is making me realize that FFXIV's problem is not that it lacks enough specifically casual, specifically "midcore," or specifically hardcore content; it's that FFXIV has nothing in it that people log in and do just because it's fun.

Nearly all of the repeatable content in the game is run via Duty Finder (minimal filtering) or Party Finder (somewhat more filtering), but both allow for some degree of an antagonistic experience. There's no "this is gonna be fun to play regardless of who I end up playing with"; rather, it's more "god, I hope I have a good group so that this goes by quickly and I can get my big dopamine hit." It's a fundamental gap in the FFXIV experience.

(emphasis mine)

On the one hand, I think there's a plenty of blame to place at the feet of encounter design and content design. For example, if the chaotic raid truly has something approximating a 24-person body check, that is absurd.

On the other hand, I think there's also blame to place at the feet of the players themselves for defaulting to "can't talk, gotta get done fast". When someone looks at everything and everyone as a potential burden, when the only thing that matters is the destination, it is no surprise that there is no fun to be had.

This is an MMO. Part of the fun is, or ought to be, just seeing who you end up playing with today. There are some lumps of coal out there. There are some shiny gems out there. The vast middle is what you choose to make of it.

[Voidmage]

Ironically I wish we had a lot more rng chaotic mechanics like those to completely randomize encounters so that we finally can get out of excel spreadsheet script hell and mindless execution of raidplans.
The problem is that nothing is designed to accommodate for this in this raid and you end up with body checks, insta death, insta wipes, the recovery options are interesting but they don't deliver in results and performance: the atomos mechanic is the only true delight of this fight but it's underused and too long and cumbersome to really make a difference for recovery.
Frankly, even if I think they could be more creative, this CAR could have been a lot more tuned toward the audience it was advertised for had they removed the towers and replaced them by something else, for starters.

True. Phase 2 itself is awesome. Really, really fun actually but the body checks are unnecessary with so many people.

I just hope they take the correct feedback out of this but honestly I have not much hope given Criterion.

They will either do the same thing again with a surprised pikachu face on why the content isn’t liked so much or they will completely swing to the other direction and we will have 08/15 Ex fight number 28372 again.

I honestly wonder if we will see nerfs in the next patch notes given the reception everywhere.

[FuturePastNow]

I honestly wonder if we will see nerfs in the next patch notes given the reception everywhere.

I think the only reception they care about is the clear rate, if it meets whatever unknown target they've set, they'll change nothing. If it doesn't meet their target they can either nerf the content or increase the reward (which they can do invisibly by tuning the bonus time).

[SargeTheSeagull]

The main problem with the fight is the difficulty. How the dev teams doesn't understand something as simple as "content that's harder than a normal alliance raid but easier than extreme" is unbelievable.

[MisterNublet]

The main problem with the fight is the difficulty. How the dev teams doesn't understand something as simple as "content that's harder than a normal alliance raid but easier than extreme" is unbelievable.

We don't even have a starting point for difficulty on normal alliance raids.

Players cried that Ivalice and Nier were too difficult and then we got Myths of the Realm.

Jeuno wasn't any more difficult than Myths but week one players were acting like it was too hard/complicated, and saying it was for the elites.

[Mawlzy]

The main problem with the fight is the difficulty. How the dev teams doesn't understand something as simple as "content that's harder than a normal alliance raid but easier than extreme" is unbelievable.

I'd suggest they understand it perfectly, they just have an agenda when it comes to which sub-population of players they cater to.

[Lilapop]

The main problem with the fight is the difficulty. How the dev teams doesn't understand something as simple as "content that's harder than a normal alliance raid but easier than extreme" is unbelievable.

They understand, its clear which audience exactly this was made for.

[Eyrilona]

Jeuno wasn't any more difficult than Myths but week one players were acting like it was too hard/complicated, and saying it was for the elites.

Indeed, you could... (say it with me) "..wait for it.. ..wait for it..!"

[Gurgeh]

The main problem with the fight is the difficulty. How the dev teams doesn't understand something as simple as "content that's harder than a normal alliance raid but easier than extreme" is unbelievable.

Some people are saying they do know but its a choice. I disagree with them and I agree with you. I think they genuinely don't get it because there are some very inflexible thinkers.
'Oh bit this kind of content, has his kind of speed, this kind of damage, and this kind of body check, and this kind of wipe mechanic, and this kind of DPS check'

no make is easier

'OK! we cut the body check to two towers, we took out the other wipe mechanics, and the DPS check can be cleared 'almost' by auto attack, we reduced the speed, and we reduced the damage.'

noo... you don't need a chainsaw for this. Try the sander.

Just reduce all the body checks to 5 man max, reduce the DPS check (go look up gray parse 17%ile if you stuck) keep everything else the same. Maybe even take out the enrage.

'But then the fight won't end in 13 minutes!'

'Yess.... these people do MSQ roul... Iiiii don't think thats goign to be a problem'

Something harder than Alliance?
Ok... alliance is raid. normal is raid? does that have something harder that normal? Savage! Ok soooo saa-vaa-g-all-iance...!
'Body checks all around!' Mix up the mechaniccs every single pull! memory tests for 24 people! Any two pulls might barely even see any of the same mechanics. Throw in a stack mechanic so we can turn that memory check into a body check! Tell them about the cast the fist time, then for no apparent reason dont tell them the second time, and and well have to change it! Give them potentially 8 dooms to clear. Before the stack. Its savage so make it 2 seconds clears. (Afterall it wont be a savage unless you have people bitching at the healers to do their job)
Its a raid, but its harder... so its a 'savage' raid!

We don't even have a starting point for difficulty on normal alliance raids.

Players cried that Ivalice and Nier were too difficult and then we got Myths of the Realm.

Jeuno wasn't any more difficult than Myths but week one players were acting like it was too hard/complicated, and saying it was for the elites.

And I can believe it! They've never seen a whole raid before now. They've only done raids with end expansion augmented gear.
"Its not supposed to go like this. Its never gone even 'nearly' like this."
Its easy, you have sync mechanisms... 'use them' Stop allowing any content to be 'so' over geared in DF. Its just unecessary, and that makes it unfair! (it ridiculous for a game to even be unfair.)

[Infindox]

We don't even have a starting point for difficulty on normal alliance raids.

Players cried that Ivalice and Nier were too difficult and then we got Myths of the Realm.

Jeuno wasn't any more difficult than Myths but week one players were acting like it was too hard/complicated, and saying it was for the elites.

They were? Jeuno's overall consensus with people I talk to was "not that difficult but was fun". Only hard part was trying to deal with Giga Slash, not about doing the mechanic but trying to read it as sometimes it can be a bit weird with the camera.